I do wish the Conservatives, and Mr Poilievre in particular, would stop whining about floor-crossing, as if the Liberals had… I don’t know … made some robocalls to confuse voters? Tried to gerrymander ridings? Shouted meaningless, nasty slogans all day long in the House of Commons? The one effect their endless moaning about back room deals has is to remind me about the back room deals and betrayals that resulted in the formation of the current federal Conservatives. David Orchard— who would have made a decent PM — was driven out of politics. Maybe the last decent Conservative. ( No, that’s going too far. Erin O’Toole, Michael Chong.. there still are decent Conservatives.)
But maybe not after all those who are unsatisfied with Mr. Poilievre have crossed the floor.
I experienced a robocall first hand….fortunately had time to figure out what happened so I still managed to vote. Ended up an accidental volunteer along with my family and a couple of neighbours. We parked ourselves at the robocall poll and redirected voters back to the correct poll location! CPC was NOT slapped down hard enough. ( we also had the middle of the night fake calls…I was not impressed …I like my sleep!)
I agree. THAT was voting fraud. And then the Conservatives had the absolute gall to try to pass the (UN)Fair Elections Act — that’s what we always called it— as if to stop (non-existent) mobs of people waving fake ID to subvert elections. Actually I can’t remember which came first, the robocalls or that ludicrous act, which I believe was the only legislation Mr. Poilievre ever authored.
And good on you for having stymied the robocalls that were local to you! No, the CPC was not penalized adequately. And I had forgotten about the late night fake calls.
Who needed foreign interference when this gang was so miserably sleazy?
That was not one of our democracy's shining moments. You know I don't think I know anyone who called it anything but the (UN)Fair Elections Act. It was a very bad piece of legislation. We dodged a bullet in my opinion.... and we are watching laws being made in the USA right now. We had to face it first, and I'm very glad we were able to put a halt to it then. Thinking back, the public pushback was quite impressive.
PP has to claim that Carney stole parliament. Otherwise he’d face a caucus coup. It’s a miracle he hasn’t already! But seriously if he didn’t say that carney was a crook, he’d have to face questions about why he’s so unpopular and how his caucus got infiltrated by floor crossers in the first place.
If another election were called today the CPC wouldn't win but it's quite possible they'd be able to deny LPC a majority. Their overall support is still quite high across the country.
It's politics though so someone is always pissed off.
I've voted in this country since I was of age (and that is a very long time now), and no election result has ever surprised me. Each and every election was of it's time. If an election were held this year, the CPC would lose more than they did in the previous election. Carney has the momentum, the CPC has none.
Of course, I am just a Canadian who observes and nothing more than that.
I will add - the CPC is free to pretend we do not have a Westminister Parliamentary system here - and they can gaslight their followers as long as they choose for their political purposes.
But reality is always waiting, silently and persistently.
I will have to disagree with you on that number, and your conclusion that 'it's a tie'. Every election is of it's time. An election tomorrow would send the CPC into a wilderness.
Again, floor crossing is ALWAYS legitimate and legal in a parliamentary democracy. Some might not like it but ... When you vote, you are voting for a PERSON to represent you. Not a party. If that person believes the Leader/Party she SUPPORTS is not doing right by either the MP's principles or his/her constituencies needs or desires, they can rebel or they can and should walk. This, my friends, is one of the few things that gives MP backbenchers power. They should not be reduced to head bobbing robots. I find it contradictory that those who bemoan how powerless backbench MPs are get antsy about their ability to walk. It is important that the leader of the party understand that they can walk.
Until the CPC starts campaigning for PR they’ll not get a smidge of sympathy from me. These floor crossing are the workaround to FPTP. In a less archaic democracy we’d have parties that actually have distinct identities and philosophies and are internally consistent. Voters in the aggregate can then decide how much say each one gets.
It is fundamentally illegitimate because of the context of how MPs are elected and serve in Parliament.
In a Burkean model, floor crossing absolutely makes sense. The MP is selected by the electorate for his or her judgment and if, in the exercise of that judgment, they want to caucus with another party that’s completely legitimate.
The reality is that the party’s candidates are either installed by the leader or selected in a contest that can involve non-voters (including non-citizens). Then in the actual election most voters are voting for the party, they may not even know who the candidate is. Once in Ottawa, the MP will spend much time parroting what talking point some 22 year old twerp in the leader’s office and/or PMO came up with.
In that context, floor crossing is illegitimate. Breathe more life into MP independence and it will become legitimate again.
I do wish the Conservatives, and Mr Poilievre in particular, would stop whining about floor-crossing, as if the Liberals had… I don’t know … made some robocalls to confuse voters? Tried to gerrymander ridings? Shouted meaningless, nasty slogans all day long in the House of Commons? The one effect their endless moaning about back room deals has is to remind me about the back room deals and betrayals that resulted in the formation of the current federal Conservatives. David Orchard— who would have made a decent PM — was driven out of politics. Maybe the last decent Conservative. ( No, that’s going too far. Erin O’Toole, Michael Chong.. there still are decent Conservatives.)
But maybe not after all those who are unsatisfied with Mr. Poilievre have crossed the floor.
I experienced a robocall first hand….fortunately had time to figure out what happened so I still managed to vote. Ended up an accidental volunteer along with my family and a couple of neighbours. We parked ourselves at the robocall poll and redirected voters back to the correct poll location! CPC was NOT slapped down hard enough. ( we also had the middle of the night fake calls…I was not impressed …I like my sleep!)
I agree. THAT was voting fraud. And then the Conservatives had the absolute gall to try to pass the (UN)Fair Elections Act — that’s what we always called it— as if to stop (non-existent) mobs of people waving fake ID to subvert elections. Actually I can’t remember which came first, the robocalls or that ludicrous act, which I believe was the only legislation Mr. Poilievre ever authored.
And good on you for having stymied the robocalls that were local to you! No, the CPC was not penalized adequately. And I had forgotten about the late night fake calls.
Who needed foreign interference when this gang was so miserably sleazy?
That was not one of our democracy's shining moments. You know I don't think I know anyone who called it anything but the (UN)Fair Elections Act. It was a very bad piece of legislation. We dodged a bullet in my opinion.... and we are watching laws being made in the USA right now. We had to face it first, and I'm very glad we were able to put a halt to it then. Thinking back, the public pushback was quite impressive.
Sorry, not Andrew, Michael Chong. Fixed it.
PP has to claim that Carney stole parliament. Otherwise he’d face a caucus coup. It’s a miracle he hasn’t already! But seriously if he didn’t say that carney was a crook, he’d have to face questions about why he’s so unpopular and how his caucus got infiltrated by floor crossers in the first place.
I'm betting that one of Poilievre's heroes is Winston Churchill, probably the GOAT of floor crossers!
Westminster's history shows that floor crossing is the norm - almost constant coalition building, especially in times of war or other crises.
I guess Poilievre's education at U of Calgary (dropped out of his BA, then finished it online a few years ago) did not cover British politics....
So, does the CPC want an election, sharpish, to address their beef?
Why do I think they dont. 🙄
I think they'd be happy to have an election.
The government is legal and legitimate but not morally.
Pollievre has accomplished a fair bit as an opposition leader but unless the NDP rebounds it's unlikely to matter who the CPC have as a leader.
They'd lose, again, and people would be pissed.
If another election were called today the CPC wouldn't win but it's quite possible they'd be able to deny LPC a majority. Their overall support is still quite high across the country.
It's politics though so someone is always pissed off.
I've voted in this country since I was of age (and that is a very long time now), and no election result has ever surprised me. Each and every election was of it's time. If an election were held this year, the CPC would lose more than they did in the previous election. Carney has the momentum, the CPC has none.
Of course, I am just a Canadian who observes and nothing more than that.
I don't believe they are that far apart but then again I'm pretty ambivalent at this point and don't trust any of them.
The number of people who think the country is headed in the right vs. Wrong direction is statistically tied.
Until we get electoral reform nothing is going to change.
I will add - the CPC is free to pretend we do not have a Westminister Parliamentary system here - and they can gaslight their followers as long as they choose for their political purposes.
But reality is always waiting, silently and persistently.
I will have to disagree with you on that number, and your conclusion that 'it's a tie'. Every election is of it's time. An election tomorrow would send the CPC into a wilderness.
Thank you for this clear-eyed view of our current parliament.
Again, floor crossing is ALWAYS legitimate and legal in a parliamentary democracy. Some might not like it but ... When you vote, you are voting for a PERSON to represent you. Not a party. If that person believes the Leader/Party she SUPPORTS is not doing right by either the MP's principles or his/her constituencies needs or desires, they can rebel or they can and should walk. This, my friends, is one of the few things that gives MP backbenchers power. They should not be reduced to head bobbing robots. I find it contradictory that those who bemoan how powerless backbench MPs are get antsy about their ability to walk. It is important that the leader of the party understand that they can walk.
Until the CPC starts campaigning for PR they’ll not get a smidge of sympathy from me. These floor crossing are the workaround to FPTP. In a less archaic democracy we’d have parties that actually have distinct identities and philosophies and are internally consistent. Voters in the aggregate can then decide how much say each one gets.
Congrats on the Macleans piece!
Excellent piece!
It is fundamentally illegitimate because of the context of how MPs are elected and serve in Parliament.
In a Burkean model, floor crossing absolutely makes sense. The MP is selected by the electorate for his or her judgment and if, in the exercise of that judgment, they want to caucus with another party that’s completely legitimate.
The reality is that the party’s candidates are either installed by the leader or selected in a contest that can involve non-voters (including non-citizens). Then in the actual election most voters are voting for the party, they may not even know who the candidate is. Once in Ottawa, the MP will spend much time parroting what talking point some 22 year old twerp in the leader’s office and/or PMO came up with.
In that context, floor crossing is illegitimate. Breathe more life into MP independence and it will become legitimate again.