"The Liberal Party is not The Justin Trudeau Party."
Evan, you are absolutely, totally, fucking wrong. The LPC has been the TPC since 2015. Totally. And the fault is with the members of the LPC for accepting and encouraging this. The result is that the people of Canada are going (I sincerely, truly, hope) to reject the TPC. What follows is very unclear. Given that Singh is similarly leading his party off a cliff I simply don't have a way of prognosticating the future after the next election.
I agree. This is not the party of, say, Jean Chretien. In fact, I remember at the time that, when Mr. Trudeau took over the leadership of the LPC, the members of the Chretien entourage were turfed, and replaced by a new group. I suspect that most of this new group have no institutional memories.
From the start, Mr. Trudeau, and the LPC under him, proclaimed their loyalty to the middle class and. It might have been more accurate to say "...and the rich". From the "pay-for-play" dinners, at the start of Trudeau's reign, where it cost $10,000 for a dinner of rubber chicken and access to the PM and his top ministers, to the way social programs have been structured, it is clear where this party's interests lie.
For example, both national pharmacare and national day care are universal programs, subsidizing the rich as well as the poor. Do families earning $200,000 and $300,000 a year really need government support? And we know from the Quebec experience that government-sponsored daycare is disproportionally used by the rich.
But we must have universal programs for the sake of social acceptability, some might say. Well, national dental care has seen benefits capped to families earning less than $90,000 a year. I guess the government was finally forced into doing the right thing as it ran out of money. And GIS and OAS have long been subject to clawback as income rises. So, while universality of social programs is nice, it is much more important to use the money available for those who truly need help.
George, just to pick up on one thing you say, we are told that we, the oldsters, are getting too much. I am certainly an oldster and OAS is a notable part of my income and I would miss it. Having said that, the truth is, I believe that the cutoff for the clawback is set too high and should be lowered. That might/might not gore my ox but, truly, if I am being honest (painful thought!) perhaps I just will have to bear that pain.
The point is that the Justin Party of Canada isn't (has never been) willing to make decisions that might be for the benefit of Canada if there might be political blowback.
I agree. The clawback cutoffs for OAS should be lowered at both top and bottom end. I don't see why couples with income in the range of $160,000 to $200.000 per year need OAS. I understand the attraction of making social programs universal, to get buy-in from the upper-middle and upper classes. But doing so is just too costly. That money would be better deployed elsewhere. But then the upper middle class is the Liberals' prime constituency. (Just think where their "safe" seats are.)
Let's envision a couple, Bob and Lydia, the each have income of 80,000 and get OAS. Under your scenario it would see both Bob and Lydia cut off of OAS. I can see "certain" interest groups decrying poor Lydia being cut out of "her well deserved entitlement" because of her husband's income. Sexism, you know.
Why can I see that? Because that was the reaction when the clawback was originally introduced and your concept was discussed!
So, I agree with your concept, but, but, but, politics, you know! Damned politics!
Yes I remember Brian Mulroney and Solange Denis. But I was attempting to state what good policy should be, not what politicians would find politic. As I've said before. politicians first want to gain or keep power. Doing the right thing for the country comes second.
I agree. Trudeau has morphed the party into his own, and turned the caucus into a bunch of sheep. It's not the Liberal party I voted for all my life. Until Trudeau leaves, I want nothing to do with it.
I’d quibble a bit on your date, and I think it matters. They’ve been the TPC since 2019. In 2015 Trudeau won on a really clear and strong policy platform. The Liberals had a clear identity and goals independent of Trudeau. However, most of those policy promises famously went nowhere and by 2019 the party and supporters found it a lot more comfortable and expedient to run on Trudeau’s personal popularity than grapple with platform and policy questions. They did the same in 2021
I think that is a large factor in the reluctance to dump Trudeau. It means gracing hard conversations about policy and what they stand for
The Libs' lack of change since the polls cratered a year ago is mystifying. They've had awhile now to adaot to the shifting headwinds, but they have not done much differently.
We need to recognize that shepherding Canada thru the unprecedented Covid crisis was a massive effort (income support for individuals and businesses + vaccine procurement).
I suspect this effort burned out many staffers. And unfortunately, they haven't found the required energy since.
They've been governing while PP spends all his time on shallow comms.
It is sad and painful to watch a leader's pride/stubbornness/overconfidence block a healthy succession process.
Even the Lib goal of a minority Poilievre govt seems to be receding...
I am not sure this exactly fits. Looking at Europe, it would appear that people are just much quicker in switching support, but that support can come back just as quickly. However, more extreme parties to tend to have it easier in an environment where complex problems can only be addressed by simple solutions.
The Liberals would do well to watch the interview with Tony Blair with Sky News two days ago (https://youtu.be/ByuzBtCKVRk?si=XJptz2OL8AM-aPiv). Especially the part about the political centre being the place of solutions (about 13 minutes in) is relevant to the current situation the Liberals find themselves in.
Trudeau and his team need to communicate more. More interviews. More townhalls. Explain that in 2022 everybody, including Conservatives, were demanding more temporary foreign workers. And explain that now the situation has changed, the policy will change too. I don’t believe voters expect perfection, they expect action.
Another example was the rather rude steelworker. It would have been a great opportunity to engage the public a few days later on dental care and why it is important for all of us. Or to raise the issue that the provinces are failing to get enough doctors despite all the extra funds from the federal government.
With Poilievre running around yelling “verb the noun” and giving people Trump-style nicknames, there is a wide open area for a serious politician willing to have a reasonable conversation on difficult topics.
.. didn’t finish reading the article .. All I’m seeing from you is ‘Trudeau Is Broken .. bravo ..
- & seeking a Scalpers Ticket to TIFF when he could be wringing his hands in dismay..
Reminds me of ‘Chicken Little.. ‘the sky is falling .. Jagmeet Singh ‘caves in’ or is told he must - by unknown actors within ‘his’ Caucus - Trudeau must/will Quit - Cut & Run like the coward he is.. Leaving some other person ‘To Share The NeverEnding Sneering Scorn of MIGHTY Pierre
& Your Secret Power is - The POLLS the POLLS the POLLS the POLLS the POLLS 🦎🏴☠️
perhaps send Trudeau your insights, afterall he is to blame for everything, day, after day, after day we are told. There is some scandal, some shady business dealings, failure to do the premieres jobs etc, because PP and his underlings tell us so everyday...."make it Trudeau's problem' is the con slogan and he can't be given credit for any accomplishments because that would make him look good and PP can't have that.....
“Perhaps send Trudeau your insights, afterall he is to blame for everything, day, after day, after day we are told…”
Yes he is? That’s the job. If he doesn’t want the responsibility he should quit. Or rather, who else would you suggest bears the ultimate responsibility for the performance of the Liberal party? He certainly got the credit when they did well, as he should have.
So if he isn’t to blame for their current performance, who is?
"The Liberal Party is not The Justin Trudeau Party."
Evan, you are absolutely, totally, fucking wrong. The LPC has been the TPC since 2015. Totally. And the fault is with the members of the LPC for accepting and encouraging this. The result is that the people of Canada are going (I sincerely, truly, hope) to reject the TPC. What follows is very unclear. Given that Singh is similarly leading his party off a cliff I simply don't have a way of prognosticating the future after the next election.
I agree. This is not the party of, say, Jean Chretien. In fact, I remember at the time that, when Mr. Trudeau took over the leadership of the LPC, the members of the Chretien entourage were turfed, and replaced by a new group. I suspect that most of this new group have no institutional memories.
From the start, Mr. Trudeau, and the LPC under him, proclaimed their loyalty to the middle class and. It might have been more accurate to say "...and the rich". From the "pay-for-play" dinners, at the start of Trudeau's reign, where it cost $10,000 for a dinner of rubber chicken and access to the PM and his top ministers, to the way social programs have been structured, it is clear where this party's interests lie.
For example, both national pharmacare and national day care are universal programs, subsidizing the rich as well as the poor. Do families earning $200,000 and $300,000 a year really need government support? And we know from the Quebec experience that government-sponsored daycare is disproportionally used by the rich.
But we must have universal programs for the sake of social acceptability, some might say. Well, national dental care has seen benefits capped to families earning less than $90,000 a year. I guess the government was finally forced into doing the right thing as it ran out of money. And GIS and OAS have long been subject to clawback as income rises. So, while universality of social programs is nice, it is much more important to use the money available for those who truly need help.
George, just to pick up on one thing you say, we are told that we, the oldsters, are getting too much. I am certainly an oldster and OAS is a notable part of my income and I would miss it. Having said that, the truth is, I believe that the cutoff for the clawback is set too high and should be lowered. That might/might not gore my ox but, truly, if I am being honest (painful thought!) perhaps I just will have to bear that pain.
The point is that the Justin Party of Canada isn't (has never been) willing to make decisions that might be for the benefit of Canada if there might be political blowback.
I agree. The clawback cutoffs for OAS should be lowered at both top and bottom end. I don't see why couples with income in the range of $160,000 to $200.000 per year need OAS. I understand the attraction of making social programs universal, to get buy-in from the upper-middle and upper classes. But doing so is just too costly. That money would be better deployed elsewhere. But then the upper middle class is the Liberals' prime constituency. (Just think where their "safe" seats are.)
George, I agree - kinda. Why kinda?
Let's envision a couple, Bob and Lydia, the each have income of 80,000 and get OAS. Under your scenario it would see both Bob and Lydia cut off of OAS. I can see "certain" interest groups decrying poor Lydia being cut out of "her well deserved entitlement" because of her husband's income. Sexism, you know.
Why can I see that? Because that was the reaction when the clawback was originally introduced and your concept was discussed!
So, I agree with your concept, but, but, but, politics, you know! Damned politics!
Yes I remember Brian Mulroney and Solange Denis. But I was attempting to state what good policy should be, not what politicians would find politic. As I've said before. politicians first want to gain or keep power. Doing the right thing for the country comes second.
I agree. Trudeau has morphed the party into his own, and turned the caucus into a bunch of sheep. It's not the Liberal party I voted for all my life. Until Trudeau leaves, I want nothing to do with it.
I’d quibble a bit on your date, and I think it matters. They’ve been the TPC since 2019. In 2015 Trudeau won on a really clear and strong policy platform. The Liberals had a clear identity and goals independent of Trudeau. However, most of those policy promises famously went nowhere and by 2019 the party and supporters found it a lot more comfortable and expedient to run on Trudeau’s personal popularity than grapple with platform and policy questions. They did the same in 2021
I think that is a large factor in the reluctance to dump Trudeau. It means gracing hard conversations about policy and what they stand for
The Libs' lack of change since the polls cratered a year ago is mystifying. They've had awhile now to adaot to the shifting headwinds, but they have not done much differently.
We need to recognize that shepherding Canada thru the unprecedented Covid crisis was a massive effort (income support for individuals and businesses + vaccine procurement).
I suspect this effort burned out many staffers. And unfortunately, they haven't found the required energy since.
They've been governing while PP spends all his time on shallow comms.
It is sad and painful to watch a leader's pride/stubbornness/overconfidence block a healthy succession process.
Even the Lib goal of a minority Poilievre govt seems to be receding...
I think understanding of the Liberal polling collapse and what they’re struggling with now maps very well on the concept of the Trust Thermocline
https://every.to/p/breaching-the-trust-thermocline-is-the-biggest-hidden-risk-in-business
It usually gets used as a business concept, but applies to any organization that relies on a social contract
I am not sure this exactly fits. Looking at Europe, it would appear that people are just much quicker in switching support, but that support can come back just as quickly. However, more extreme parties to tend to have it easier in an environment where complex problems can only be addressed by simple solutions.
The Liberals would do well to watch the interview with Tony Blair with Sky News two days ago (https://youtu.be/ByuzBtCKVRk?si=XJptz2OL8AM-aPiv). Especially the part about the political centre being the place of solutions (about 13 minutes in) is relevant to the current situation the Liberals find themselves in.
Trudeau and his team need to communicate more. More interviews. More townhalls. Explain that in 2022 everybody, including Conservatives, were demanding more temporary foreign workers. And explain that now the situation has changed, the policy will change too. I don’t believe voters expect perfection, they expect action.
Another example was the rather rude steelworker. It would have been a great opportunity to engage the public a few days later on dental care and why it is important for all of us. Or to raise the issue that the provinces are failing to get enough doctors despite all the extra funds from the federal government.
With Poilievre running around yelling “verb the noun” and giving people Trump-style nicknames, there is a wide open area for a serious politician willing to have a reasonable conversation on difficult topics.
Baloney
.. didn’t finish reading the article .. All I’m seeing from you is ‘Trudeau Is Broken .. bravo ..
- & seeking a Scalpers Ticket to TIFF when he could be wringing his hands in dismay..
Reminds me of ‘Chicken Little.. ‘the sky is falling .. Jagmeet Singh ‘caves in’ or is told he must - by unknown actors within ‘his’ Caucus - Trudeau must/will Quit - Cut & Run like the coward he is.. Leaving some other person ‘To Share The NeverEnding Sneering Scorn of MIGHTY Pierre
& Your Secret Power is - The POLLS the POLLS the POLLS the POLLS the POLLS 🦎🏴☠️
perhaps send Trudeau your insights, afterall he is to blame for everything, day, after day, after day we are told. There is some scandal, some shady business dealings, failure to do the premieres jobs etc, because PP and his underlings tell us so everyday...."make it Trudeau's problem' is the con slogan and he can't be given credit for any accomplishments because that would make him look good and PP can't have that.....
“Perhaps send Trudeau your insights, afterall he is to blame for everything, day, after day, after day we are told…”
Yes he is? That’s the job. If he doesn’t want the responsibility he should quit. Or rather, who else would you suggest bears the ultimate responsibility for the performance of the Liberal party? He certainly got the credit when they did well, as he should have.
So if he isn’t to blame for their current performance, who is?
Baloney
I appreciate your well thought out response that expecting the leader of a party to be accept responsibility for how it performs is “baloney”