Recounts are overseen by a judge with candidates and legal representatives present. They include the returning officer, the candidates, the recount teams — each consisting of a handler, a recorder and one representative appointed by each candidate — legal counsel for each candidate, legal counsel for the chief electoral officer and two representatives per candidate who are not members of the recount team.
Elections Canada is an indépendant office. The CEO is an Officer of Parliament. After an election, EC must exhaustively report to their boss, Parliament, on all that went wrong and right. That report is sent to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. (There is also an Advisory Committee to EC.) There is oversight and review and IMO it is sufficient given the issues in this election. EC should be allowed to fess up and propose its own fixes before things get political with a separate Parliamentary investigation.
As someone who has worked both the most recent provincial election in Ontario and our recent federal election, I think that yes, there are things EC could do better, on several fronts. I have heard complaints about accessibility of polling places, as well as concerns about being given incorrect information. However, I also think that at some point individuals need to accept responsibility to 1) read the instructions, and 2) follow the instructions.
I find it very interesting that we are hearing complaints about not being informed in a timely fashion re where to go to vote or what is needed for the federal election, when there was very CLEARLY a much more pervasive problem with this in the most recent Ontario election, but y'know who won that election, so I'm sure it's fine. /shrug
Regarding the ID requirements, for a federal election, we are trained to accept photo ID + something with your address and the IAs are not supposed to be telling you if your ID is or is not acceptable, the Deputy Returning Officer is who gets the final say in that matter. If you were given incorrect information at the information desk, did you raise that with the poll supervisor? That's a training issue, and as a CPS, I would have wanted to hear that my IAs were giving out wrong info, and would have made sure to go and reinforce their training and reiterate that they were to use their reference materials.
Re ballot counts - all day of polling places + advance polls are counted on election night. EC gets special dispensation to begin counting the advance polls earlier than poll close time. Each polling place closes their poll at the appointed time and then goes through and hand counts every ballot, and then provides that information to the returning officer of their local electoral district. Most polling places have several polls worth of votes to count. I was unable to call in my polling place's results until close to midnight on election night, by which point, I do believe some news outlets had already begun calling the election. Anecdotally, I also heard that there were altercations at polling places during the counts, which I'm sure also adds to the delay in providing the result information to the returning office.
EC is already non-partisan and independent from the government of the day and must report to parliament on the results, feedback and whatever else as part of their mandate. So I don't think that adding another layer of oversight is useful or advisable.
I agree that EC was unprepared for the appetite for advance polls, however, they were working within the framework of previous elections and previous turnouts. They staffed for what was statistically likely, and when they needed more bodies, they put them in as well as they were able. I know they struggled in my own electoral district to find people to work the election! So, if you (general) were affected by having to stand in line at an advance poll or on voting day, then maybe consider applying to work a the next election! That will help alleviate staffing concerns!
Additionally, federal elections are all done with paper ballots. This makes every part of the voting process take longer. If we can get Elections Canada on board with the same system that is used for the provincial elections, that would definitely solve some of the waiting that people were encountering.
Regarding the voter with the returned mail in ballot - sure, yeah, the address was wrong on the envelope, but she had options to get her vote in. Just like people who show up without ID, or to the wrong polling place. There are options. Elections Canada wants you to vote, the staff at the polling place wants you to vote. We will do our best to make sure that you can, but there are rules to follow and policies in place that are there for a reason.
I think one thing we really actually need to be holding EC accountable for as part of this election is the accessibility of the polling places. Mine was, but I know of several polling places that seemed accessible on the surface, but the EC staff was not proactive in making sure that it continued to be. This is a HUGE problem and needs to be addressed going forward as part of the culture instilled as part of the training program that all EC staff participate in in order to be ready to work on election day.
I think we mainly agree, but in this instance EC is responsible for the error. Not everyone would have sufficient knowledge or time or confidence to take the retured ballot to the EC office.
Perhaps Elections Canada needs to provide additional information about what to do if an elector encounters issues or problems with their special ballot.
This incident is giving people with a grievance an opportunity to complain about EC. If a by-election is called in the riding, then sets a bad precedent, the final decision of a judicial review of the vote is being disregardedl. If they don't have a new election, the EC will be accused of being partisan even if it simply following well-established rules.
There may be many people who wanted to vote but were unable to do so because of Elections Canada rules. They couldn't vote because they went to the wrong polling place, they arrived after the polls were closed, or they did not have sufficient,accurate identification and had no one from their polling division to vouch for them. If the elector who did not submit her returned special ballot is allowed to have her vote counted, then what about all the others who wanted to vote, but didn't go to their polling place with sufficient ID on time? Will they be allowed to vote, too?
The people who work for Elections Canada at the polling places may be temporary employees, but, in my experience, they work with electors to help ensure they may exercise their right to vote. (I am finally getting to the point.) Nonetheless, the onus is still on the elector to show up at their designated polling place with sufficient identification while the polls are open. Similarly, the elector is also responsible to ensure their special ballot is received on time by Elections Canada.
The problem was this whole thing of mail in ballots. That method of voting should be abolished. And then the concept of online voting - oh, my God, talk about disaster waiting to happen!
Call me old fashioned - I definitely am old - but mail in ballots lead to arguments about fraud (see the idiot in the US) and too many ways for what might be a legitimate ballot not reaching the proper place.
If you must (Grrrrr!) use mail in ballots, make the delivery of the ballot, within the correct timeframe, to the correct address EXCLUSIVELY the responsibility of the elector. No excuses for Canada Post, wrong addresses, wrong postal code, etc.
From what I understand EC made a mistake on the return envelope of the elector's special ballot and the elector was prevented from voting. However, if she received the return-to-sender ballot on or before Election Day, she could have visited her local Elections Canada office and given them her special ballot. (Polling districts do not accept special ballots.)
And that is my point: she could have visited / couriered / sent by special delivery / whatever the ballot to Elections Canada. I contend that when someone looks for a "concession" to ignore the standard voting arrangement the responsibility for ensuring the proper/safe/timely delivery of the ballot should be on the elector.
I worked for Elections Canada during the Election. We had a elector show up wanting to vote despite having requested and received a special ballot. She threw it in the garbage and showed up on Election day wanting to vote at the polls. Obviously, we told we could not issue her a second ballot.
Special ballots do need to exist for people with special circumstances, but most electors can vote at the local Elections Canada office, at the Advanced Polls, or on Election Day.
Okay, I will accept your comment as a starting point and then return to my point that when we depart from the norm the responsibility for ensuring that vote is actually cast and counted should be on the elector to ensure that it gets to the Elections Canada office.
I have used the mail-in ballot option and it did not occur to me to check that the postal code on the pre-printed return envelope was correct. My reading of the story was that the woman's ballot was returned to her by Canada Post as undeliverable and too late for her to re-send/deliver it to be counted. I do wonder how the mail-in ballots are printed so that seemingly, only a few had incorrect postal codes.
Recounts are overseen by a judge with candidates and legal representatives present. They include the returning officer, the candidates, the recount teams — each consisting of a handler, a recorder and one representative appointed by each candidate — legal counsel for each candidate, legal counsel for the chief electoral officer and two representatives per candidate who are not members of the recount team.
Yes, the mail-in system seems to have glitches. Need to improve this increasingly popular method.
And yes, most of the staff are temporary, very quickly trained, and young/inexperienced.
I've been a poll worker for both fed and prov elections. There is a lot to learn and people do make mistakes.
There are many built-in checks, and usually the mistakes don't matter because elections are not often that close.
In this case, the Terrebonne election should be run again.
That's ok.
And Libs: be responsible and lead the call for a byelection!
Elections Canada is an indépendant office. The CEO is an Officer of Parliament. After an election, EC must exhaustively report to their boss, Parliament, on all that went wrong and right. That report is sent to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. (There is also an Advisory Committee to EC.) There is oversight and review and IMO it is sufficient given the issues in this election. EC should be allowed to fess up and propose its own fixes before things get political with a separate Parliamentary investigation.
As someone who has worked both the most recent provincial election in Ontario and our recent federal election, I think that yes, there are things EC could do better, on several fronts. I have heard complaints about accessibility of polling places, as well as concerns about being given incorrect information. However, I also think that at some point individuals need to accept responsibility to 1) read the instructions, and 2) follow the instructions.
I find it very interesting that we are hearing complaints about not being informed in a timely fashion re where to go to vote or what is needed for the federal election, when there was very CLEARLY a much more pervasive problem with this in the most recent Ontario election, but y'know who won that election, so I'm sure it's fine. /shrug
Regarding the ID requirements, for a federal election, we are trained to accept photo ID + something with your address and the IAs are not supposed to be telling you if your ID is or is not acceptable, the Deputy Returning Officer is who gets the final say in that matter. If you were given incorrect information at the information desk, did you raise that with the poll supervisor? That's a training issue, and as a CPS, I would have wanted to hear that my IAs were giving out wrong info, and would have made sure to go and reinforce their training and reiterate that they were to use their reference materials.
Re ballot counts - all day of polling places + advance polls are counted on election night. EC gets special dispensation to begin counting the advance polls earlier than poll close time. Each polling place closes their poll at the appointed time and then goes through and hand counts every ballot, and then provides that information to the returning officer of their local electoral district. Most polling places have several polls worth of votes to count. I was unable to call in my polling place's results until close to midnight on election night, by which point, I do believe some news outlets had already begun calling the election. Anecdotally, I also heard that there were altercations at polling places during the counts, which I'm sure also adds to the delay in providing the result information to the returning office.
EC is already non-partisan and independent from the government of the day and must report to parliament on the results, feedback and whatever else as part of their mandate. So I don't think that adding another layer of oversight is useful or advisable.
I agree that EC was unprepared for the appetite for advance polls, however, they were working within the framework of previous elections and previous turnouts. They staffed for what was statistically likely, and when they needed more bodies, they put them in as well as they were able. I know they struggled in my own electoral district to find people to work the election! So, if you (general) were affected by having to stand in line at an advance poll or on voting day, then maybe consider applying to work a the next election! That will help alleviate staffing concerns!
Additionally, federal elections are all done with paper ballots. This makes every part of the voting process take longer. If we can get Elections Canada on board with the same system that is used for the provincial elections, that would definitely solve some of the waiting that people were encountering.
Regarding the voter with the returned mail in ballot - sure, yeah, the address was wrong on the envelope, but she had options to get her vote in. Just like people who show up without ID, or to the wrong polling place. There are options. Elections Canada wants you to vote, the staff at the polling place wants you to vote. We will do our best to make sure that you can, but there are rules to follow and policies in place that are there for a reason.
I think one thing we really actually need to be holding EC accountable for as part of this election is the accessibility of the polling places. Mine was, but I know of several polling places that seemed accessible on the surface, but the EC staff was not proactive in making sure that it continued to be. This is a HUGE problem and needs to be addressed going forward as part of the culture instilled as part of the training program that all EC staff participate in in order to be ready to work on election day.
I think we mainly agree, but in this instance EC is responsible for the error. Not everyone would have sufficient knowledge or time or confidence to take the retured ballot to the EC office.
Perhaps Elections Canada needs to provide additional information about what to do if an elector encounters issues or problems with their special ballot.
This incident is giving people with a grievance an opportunity to complain about EC. If a by-election is called in the riding, then sets a bad precedent, the final decision of a judicial review of the vote is being disregardedl. If they don't have a new election, the EC will be accused of being partisan even if it simply following well-established rules.
There may be many people who wanted to vote but were unable to do so because of Elections Canada rules. They couldn't vote because they went to the wrong polling place, they arrived after the polls were closed, or they did not have sufficient,accurate identification and had no one from their polling division to vouch for them. If the elector who did not submit her returned special ballot is allowed to have her vote counted, then what about all the others who wanted to vote, but didn't go to their polling place with sufficient ID on time? Will they be allowed to vote, too?
The people who work for Elections Canada at the polling places may be temporary employees, but, in my experience, they work with electors to help ensure they may exercise their right to vote. (I am finally getting to the point.) Nonetheless, the onus is still on the elector to show up at their designated polling place with sufficient identification while the polls are open. Similarly, the elector is also responsible to ensure their special ballot is received on time by Elections Canada.
Nope, no redo.
The problem was this whole thing of mail in ballots. That method of voting should be abolished. And then the concept of online voting - oh, my God, talk about disaster waiting to happen!
Call me old fashioned - I definitely am old - but mail in ballots lead to arguments about fraud (see the idiot in the US) and too many ways for what might be a legitimate ballot not reaching the proper place.
If you must (Grrrrr!) use mail in ballots, make the delivery of the ballot, within the correct timeframe, to the correct address EXCLUSIVELY the responsibility of the elector. No excuses for Canada Post, wrong addresses, wrong postal code, etc.
From what I understand EC made a mistake on the return envelope of the elector's special ballot and the elector was prevented from voting. However, if she received the return-to-sender ballot on or before Election Day, she could have visited her local Elections Canada office and given them her special ballot. (Polling districts do not accept special ballots.)
And that is my point: she could have visited / couriered / sent by special delivery / whatever the ballot to Elections Canada. I contend that when someone looks for a "concession" to ignore the standard voting arrangement the responsibility for ensuring the proper/safe/timely delivery of the ballot should be on the elector.
I worked for Elections Canada during the Election. We had a elector show up wanting to vote despite having requested and received a special ballot. She threw it in the garbage and showed up on Election day wanting to vote at the polls. Obviously, we told we could not issue her a second ballot.
Special ballots do need to exist for people with special circumstances, but most electors can vote at the local Elections Canada office, at the Advanced Polls, or on Election Day.
Okay, I will accept your comment as a starting point and then return to my point that when we depart from the norm the responsibility for ensuring that vote is actually cast and counted should be on the elector to ensure that it gets to the Elections Canada office.
I have used the mail-in ballot option and it did not occur to me to check that the postal code on the pre-printed return envelope was correct. My reading of the story was that the woman's ballot was returned to her by Canada Post as undeliverable and too late for her to re-send/deliver it to be counted. I do wonder how the mail-in ballots are printed so that seemingly, only a few had incorrect postal codes.