They haven’t responded to any of the other five-alarm-fire polling or results over the last year, why would you expect them to start now?
On a fundamental level, the entire Liberal party apparatus continues to operate as if they really think everything is fine. Fine inside the party, fine with the provinces, fine with general voters, fine internationally.
One of the things that I’m most looking forward to over the next few month, is that with a changing of the guard we might start getting some inside takes about just what the hell they've been thinking, any who has been making the calls
So, Evan, you are upset that the LPC is "poised" (you quote Anglo pundits) "... to elect a candidate who not only does not have any relationship with Quebec but doesn't seem to care."
Chickens. Home. To. Roost.
After nine years as the PM wherein he actively sought to denigrate Canada, particularly the ethos of English speaking Canada, where he went to war with Alberta, yada, yada, yada, bring on the fucking referendum. You people who worry about Quebec but not the ROC are not my Canada.
War with Alberta? Trudeau didn't start that. No Conservative PM built them a pipeline to tidewater. How many millions were given to clean up abandoned oil wells (why don't oil companies have to do that?) Do they even have to put down a deposit now to do that? Transition to alternative fuel sources, slowly it's going to happen if you want to live on planet earth. UCP seem to be wholly beholden to the oil and gas industry and nothing else. Have squandered chances at developing more solar/wind lately. Texas hasn't. I agree that eventual Liberal leader has to be fluent in French, but does not have to come from Quebec. Let's see who the candidates are before he says they don't " understand" Quebec.
"Foreign francophone rules? The private company bailed because the construction costs were ballooning. Govt stepped in and guaranteed project. You blame the govt who saved it but like the company that abandoned project!🤔
Red tape? Conservative code for regulation. Protection of rivers/forests/oceans/property/citizens is not a bad thing for a govt. to do. Have you ever seen up close the effects of oil spills? I can't believe your foreign francophone rulers remark. Well your foreign francophone party got it built when no one else chose to. The End.
Analysis paralysis and neverending consultations with a parade of "stakeholders" run the clock purposefully on projects like the pipeline. The private sector can't eat the losses like the public sector can. Same thing with home building in Canada, too process and risk aversion driven for its own good.
As for foreign francophone rules, it's just used as yet another barrier to entry for everyone who isn't an insider. The Ottawa/West Island party made sure of that.
You can go ahead and drop the "affection" and "respect" BS any time now Ken. Truly.
And you need a history/geography/math lesson about this country because, whether you like it or not, "your Canada" STARTED in Quebec, which meant that the majority of the population is still located there and in Ontario.
SO, since we're still a democracy (something that YOUR side is actively threatening btw, not OURS), election results have naturally been determined there. No one's fault, but tell that to the churlish, resentful West under god-boy Manning, who used the influence of oil wealth and the rural bible belt (our contingent of Christian "soldiers") to eradicate the Progressive Conservatives, their first telling move to REMOVE the word "progressive." This was their first serious takedown of one of the basic institutions of Canada, and boy, do we miss them now. THEY were reasonable, in keeping with the whole idea of what "Canada" was, a country that came about through "evolution" rather than "revolution," like the U.S. Which has a lot to do with why we have always essentially defined ourselves-- as NOT American.
The way Preston Manning talked a lot like American actor Jimmy Stewart was a forewarning of what was to come.
Speaking of ideas, it can be seen since "Project 2025" that the "god idea" can supplant all others when it takes hold with its inherent "missionary zeal," hence the hard-won historical prescription to separate church and state. Quebec is the only province, in fact the only North American jurisdiction, period, to give religion (and uber-tenacious Catholicism at that) the heave-ho, stubbornly insisting on secularism.
Evan's right about Quebec being truly special, a shining city on the hill. My home, what I now think of as "Alberduh," has been trying to replace them by force, their preferred tactic (apparently unaware that imitation is the most serious form of flattery), but where, with ALL that wealth, is OUR shining city on the hill?
I think Western Canada's contribution to Quebec (subsidizing them with billions of tax dollars through equalization) has entitled them to speak quite frankly about how the country actually operates.
Alberta isn't a place that accepts mediocrity to have equality. It isn't a place that is comfortable with the cradle to grave state because it thinks that paternalism leads to laziness and fecklessness.
Calling someone lazy in Alberta is one of the biggest insults you can call them. The Protestant work ethic is strong in Alberta.
As for the idea of Canada starting in Quebec and the "real Canada" being Ontario and Quebec, Alberta and Saskatchewan are the two provinces that weren't founded and created by High Tory Central Canadian types. The formative people's are Eastern European, German, American and Scottish along with a huge FN impact. The Cree don't have much in common with the Mohawk. Quebec is as foreign to Alberta as France is to Holland.
There is plenty of room for an association arrangement across North America, but Quebecois values and needs being pushed onto Alberta is a non starter.
Oh really. And aren't the Alberta guy guys "special." Convoy types with their jacked up big black trucks, flags flying, even "truck nuts?" A BIT overstated wouldn't you say? Not to mention juvenile.
And speaking of juvenile, in all the lauding of macho independence, you've completely ignored the bible belt influence that doesn't just speak to the "Protestant work ethic," it also represents the ultimate paternalism of religion with the whole "God the Father" idea. It's the original patriarchy that was obviously invented by guys in the first place to give them a proxy for ruling the world. The trademark of the Alpha male, a truly otherworldly male ego, may be what is not survivable for our species, and so many others.
As Jerry Seinfeld said, "all guys are low-level superheroes in their own minds," but you could also say "low-level gods," same thing.
It's ALL a myth of course. The truth is that we're all indebted for the very tongue with which we speak, from cradle to grave.
But Manning's Reform Party certainly got rid of all those more powerful "High Tory Central Canadian types" alright, replacing them with a bunch of provincial, ham-fisted rubes and "bozo eruptions" that have never ended. The matching cultural devolution of "Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbest" has attracted a whack of men who had never done much reading or writing until the anonymous internet platform appeared, but were wildly resentful of any and all who HAD, i.e. high-minded "elites," not to mention the ongoing scourge of "feminism."
Decades of concerted effort finally resulted in the takeover of the Supreme Court whose first move was to tellingly put women in their place, and these same religious assholes then produced the horror of "Project 2025."
In the States they were as appalled at a half-black man becoming president as they were at a WOMAN, shown in the recent election that came down to bros vs. hos, and of course the bros won. Great.
All this has culminated here in Alberta-born attack dog Poilievre winning the day, a triumph of marketing like no other, but also the "Peter principle" because he's in WAY over his head.
On one level, I think your fears are a bit overblown. I think the Conservatives are polling where they are in Quebec because some Quebecers like to vote for the perceived winner to gain influence with them. It’s part of how Trudeau won a majority in 2015.
On another level, I agree with you. English Canada is, IMO, in danger of disintegrating culturally within the next decade or two because no one has taken the effort to build the institutions necessary to support English Canadian culture. Quebec and the First Nations are what help distinguish English Canadians from Americans. If we push one or both away, then English Canada will essentially become America, with all the negative cultural consequences that would entail. As to how to stop this, I have no solution except for a thorough rebuild of both the Liberal and New Democrat parties. They are failing at the art of politics by convincing people outside their base to support them. That includes Quebecers. Hopefully you could do your part for the Liberals in a more official capacity, Evan.
I don't think you realize how much English Canadians doesn't care about cultural distinctiveness. Immigration since WW2 has really changed English Canada and one of those changes is the ebbing of the reflexive chip on shoulder anti-Americanism. Old stock Anglos are just a smaller part of the population now.
The big test, and the biggest FU by Trump would be if he allowed any Canadian born person to live and work in the US. The numbers I suspect of under 30s and 1st gen immigrants leaving would be devastating not just to the economy, be the perceived value of Canadian culture.
In the end economic opportunity and security for your children beats everything, and the world superpower can provide that.
English (and Allophone) Canada are sick and tired of Quebec being the tail that wags the dog in Canada. They are sick and tired of Quebecois values and obsessions being thrust onto the rest of the country. Do you really Bill C63, and Bill C69, which are toxic in the rest of Canada, would be a thing without the demands of the Quebecois cultural elite?
A lot of the problems with Canada's economy and with the Liberal Party can be explained by pushing francophone values (and West Island insecurities) onto the rest of Canada, results and impacts be damned.
They increasingly think the cost of keeping Quebec in Canada is too high of a price to pay. In other words, the Anglophone version of Canada is quickly outgrowing Quebec (and Quebec outgrowing English Canada)
Sure the Americans have ethanol and corn, but Canada has the dairy cartel, Quebec Inc, language laws, bilingual requirements for jobs as a naked version of stacking jobs for Montreal and Ottawa Valley folks, etc.
The Liberal party desperately needs to move on from being just a branch of the McGill Alumni Association if it is to be relevant to all of Canada. (It's sad how even in other provinces how much the Liberal Party depends on West Island refugees)
This isn't just an inflection point for the Liberal Patty but also Canada.
I am very concerned about the Liberals electing a leader with no real connection to Quebec and/or who speaks poor French (I include Carney in this list), who then loses to the Conservatives anyway. If you are a federalist in Quebec to whom do you look at that point? Add to that Donald Trump and the people of Quebec may really start to feel alienated in North America which will increase the odds of another referendum if the PQ wins in 2026.
Hmm... I'm pretty sure Quebec is also distinct in its early and deep embrace of net zero.
Who better than global climate change expert Mark Carney to articulate and advance climate policy and the vast opportunities for Quebec and Canada in the transition to renewable energy?
Voting federally in Quebec is tribal. Since the election of Trudeau the Elder in 1968, and with the exception of Stephen Harper, all of our Prime Ministers of any of any consequence have been from Quebec. The voters there will support the party that they think will win (if the leader if Francophone), and if not will support a seperatist party that will hold TROC to ransom. .
They haven’t responded to any of the other five-alarm-fire polling or results over the last year, why would you expect them to start now?
On a fundamental level, the entire Liberal party apparatus continues to operate as if they really think everything is fine. Fine inside the party, fine with the provinces, fine with general voters, fine internationally.
One of the things that I’m most looking forward to over the next few month, is that with a changing of the guard we might start getting some inside takes about just what the hell they've been thinking, any who has been making the calls
So, Evan, you are upset that the LPC is "poised" (you quote Anglo pundits) "... to elect a candidate who not only does not have any relationship with Quebec but doesn't seem to care."
Chickens. Home. To. Roost.
After nine years as the PM wherein he actively sought to denigrate Canada, particularly the ethos of English speaking Canada, where he went to war with Alberta, yada, yada, yada, bring on the fucking referendum. You people who worry about Quebec but not the ROC are not my Canada.
And I say that with the greatest affection.
War with Alberta? Trudeau didn't start that. No Conservative PM built them a pipeline to tidewater. How many millions were given to clean up abandoned oil wells (why don't oil companies have to do that?) Do they even have to put down a deposit now to do that? Transition to alternative fuel sources, slowly it's going to happen if you want to live on planet earth. UCP seem to be wholly beholden to the oil and gas industry and nothing else. Have squandered chances at developing more solar/wind lately. Texas hasn't. I agree that eventual Liberal leader has to be fluent in French, but does not have to come from Quebec. Let's see who the candidates are before he says they don't " understand" Quebec.
Ever heard of the National Energy Program?
The pipeline was ready to be built by private industry but they bailed when confronted with the Liberals and their new foreign Francophone rules.
As for Quebeckers, it's never been about just knowing French, it's about them electing "one of ours" to satisfy their garrison mentality.
"Foreign francophone rules? The private company bailed because the construction costs were ballooning. Govt stepped in and guaranteed project. You blame the govt who saved it but like the company that abandoned project!🤔
The costs were ballooning because of all the red tape and changing regulatory requirements. Delays, ambiguity and process all cost more.
Red tape? Conservative code for regulation. Protection of rivers/forests/oceans/property/citizens is not a bad thing for a govt. to do. Have you ever seen up close the effects of oil spills? I can't believe your foreign francophone rulers remark. Well your foreign francophone party got it built when no one else chose to. The End.
Analysis paralysis and neverending consultations with a parade of "stakeholders" run the clock purposefully on projects like the pipeline. The private sector can't eat the losses like the public sector can. Same thing with home building in Canada, too process and risk aversion driven for its own good.
As for foreign francophone rules, it's just used as yet another barrier to entry for everyone who isn't an insider. The Ottawa/West Island party made sure of that.
You can go ahead and drop the "affection" and "respect" BS any time now Ken. Truly.
And you need a history/geography/math lesson about this country because, whether you like it or not, "your Canada" STARTED in Quebec, which meant that the majority of the population is still located there and in Ontario.
SO, since we're still a democracy (something that YOUR side is actively threatening btw, not OURS), election results have naturally been determined there. No one's fault, but tell that to the churlish, resentful West under god-boy Manning, who used the influence of oil wealth and the rural bible belt (our contingent of Christian "soldiers") to eradicate the Progressive Conservatives, their first telling move to REMOVE the word "progressive." This was their first serious takedown of one of the basic institutions of Canada, and boy, do we miss them now. THEY were reasonable, in keeping with the whole idea of what "Canada" was, a country that came about through "evolution" rather than "revolution," like the U.S. Which has a lot to do with why we have always essentially defined ourselves-- as NOT American.
The way Preston Manning talked a lot like American actor Jimmy Stewart was a forewarning of what was to come.
Speaking of ideas, it can be seen since "Project 2025" that the "god idea" can supplant all others when it takes hold with its inherent "missionary zeal," hence the hard-won historical prescription to separate church and state. Quebec is the only province, in fact the only North American jurisdiction, period, to give religion (and uber-tenacious Catholicism at that) the heave-ho, stubbornly insisting on secularism.
Evan's right about Quebec being truly special, a shining city on the hill. My home, what I now think of as "Alberduh," has been trying to replace them by force, their preferred tactic (apparently unaware that imitation is the most serious form of flattery), but where, with ALL that wealth, is OUR shining city on the hill?
I think Western Canada's contribution to Quebec (subsidizing them with billions of tax dollars through equalization) has entitled them to speak quite frankly about how the country actually operates.
Alberta isn't a place that accepts mediocrity to have equality. It isn't a place that is comfortable with the cradle to grave state because it thinks that paternalism leads to laziness and fecklessness.
Calling someone lazy in Alberta is one of the biggest insults you can call them. The Protestant work ethic is strong in Alberta.
As for the idea of Canada starting in Quebec and the "real Canada" being Ontario and Quebec, Alberta and Saskatchewan are the two provinces that weren't founded and created by High Tory Central Canadian types. The formative people's are Eastern European, German, American and Scottish along with a huge FN impact. The Cree don't have much in common with the Mohawk. Quebec is as foreign to Alberta as France is to Holland.
There is plenty of room for an association arrangement across North America, but Quebecois values and needs being pushed onto Alberta is a non starter.
Oh really. And aren't the Alberta guy guys "special." Convoy types with their jacked up big black trucks, flags flying, even "truck nuts?" A BIT overstated wouldn't you say? Not to mention juvenile.
And speaking of juvenile, in all the lauding of macho independence, you've completely ignored the bible belt influence that doesn't just speak to the "Protestant work ethic," it also represents the ultimate paternalism of religion with the whole "God the Father" idea. It's the original patriarchy that was obviously invented by guys in the first place to give them a proxy for ruling the world. The trademark of the Alpha male, a truly otherworldly male ego, may be what is not survivable for our species, and so many others.
As Jerry Seinfeld said, "all guys are low-level superheroes in their own minds," but you could also say "low-level gods," same thing.
It's ALL a myth of course. The truth is that we're all indebted for the very tongue with which we speak, from cradle to grave.
But Manning's Reform Party certainly got rid of all those more powerful "High Tory Central Canadian types" alright, replacing them with a bunch of provincial, ham-fisted rubes and "bozo eruptions" that have never ended. The matching cultural devolution of "Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbest" has attracted a whack of men who had never done much reading or writing until the anonymous internet platform appeared, but were wildly resentful of any and all who HAD, i.e. high-minded "elites," not to mention the ongoing scourge of "feminism."
Decades of concerted effort finally resulted in the takeover of the Supreme Court whose first move was to tellingly put women in their place, and these same religious assholes then produced the horror of "Project 2025."
In the States they were as appalled at a half-black man becoming president as they were at a WOMAN, shown in the recent election that came down to bros vs. hos, and of course the bros won. Great.
All this has culminated here in Alberta-born attack dog Poilievre winning the day, a triumph of marketing like no other, but also the "Peter principle" because he's in WAY over his head.
On one level, I think your fears are a bit overblown. I think the Conservatives are polling where they are in Quebec because some Quebecers like to vote for the perceived winner to gain influence with them. It’s part of how Trudeau won a majority in 2015.
On another level, I agree with you. English Canada is, IMO, in danger of disintegrating culturally within the next decade or two because no one has taken the effort to build the institutions necessary to support English Canadian culture. Quebec and the First Nations are what help distinguish English Canadians from Americans. If we push one or both away, then English Canada will essentially become America, with all the negative cultural consequences that would entail. As to how to stop this, I have no solution except for a thorough rebuild of both the Liberal and New Democrat parties. They are failing at the art of politics by convincing people outside their base to support them. That includes Quebecers. Hopefully you could do your part for the Liberals in a more official capacity, Evan.
I don't think you realize how much English Canadians doesn't care about cultural distinctiveness. Immigration since WW2 has really changed English Canada and one of those changes is the ebbing of the reflexive chip on shoulder anti-Americanism. Old stock Anglos are just a smaller part of the population now.
The big test, and the biggest FU by Trump would be if he allowed any Canadian born person to live and work in the US. The numbers I suspect of under 30s and 1st gen immigrants leaving would be devastating not just to the economy, be the perceived value of Canadian culture.
In the end economic opportunity and security for your children beats everything, and the world superpower can provide that.
English (and Allophone) Canada are sick and tired of Quebec being the tail that wags the dog in Canada. They are sick and tired of Quebecois values and obsessions being thrust onto the rest of the country. Do you really Bill C63, and Bill C69, which are toxic in the rest of Canada, would be a thing without the demands of the Quebecois cultural elite?
A lot of the problems with Canada's economy and with the Liberal Party can be explained by pushing francophone values (and West Island insecurities) onto the rest of Canada, results and impacts be damned.
They increasingly think the cost of keeping Quebec in Canada is too high of a price to pay. In other words, the Anglophone version of Canada is quickly outgrowing Quebec (and Quebec outgrowing English Canada)
Sure the Americans have ethanol and corn, but Canada has the dairy cartel, Quebec Inc, language laws, bilingual requirements for jobs as a naked version of stacking jobs for Montreal and Ottawa Valley folks, etc.
The Liberal party desperately needs to move on from being just a branch of the McGill Alumni Association if it is to be relevant to all of Canada. (It's sad how even in other provinces how much the Liberal Party depends on West Island refugees)
This isn't just an inflection point for the Liberal Patty but also Canada.
I am very concerned about the Liberals electing a leader with no real connection to Quebec and/or who speaks poor French (I include Carney in this list), who then loses to the Conservatives anyway. If you are a federalist in Quebec to whom do you look at that point? Add to that Donald Trump and the people of Quebec may really start to feel alienated in North America which will increase the odds of another referendum if the PQ wins in 2026.
Hmm... I'm pretty sure Quebec is also distinct in its early and deep embrace of net zero.
Who better than global climate change expert Mark Carney to articulate and advance climate policy and the vast opportunities for Quebec and Canada in the transition to renewable energy?
Voting federally in Quebec is tribal. Since the election of Trudeau the Elder in 1968, and with the exception of Stephen Harper, all of our Prime Ministers of any of any consequence have been from Quebec. The voters there will support the party that they think will win (if the leader if Francophone), and if not will support a seperatist party that will hold TROC to ransom. .
Even if you still need an editor.
True