The fact that CSIS reported that China targeted his family "for further potential sanctions” and “to make an example of” (article: China views Canada as a ‘high priority’ for interference: CSIS report)
The fact that CSIS, the formal organization, again confirmed this happened (article: CSIS head tells MP Michael Chong that he and family were targeted by China).
And the fact that you dismiss Globe and Mail as fake news the same way Trump does.
Downplaying China's actions over your own country, why? You're that partisan? MAGA was a danger warning, not an instruction manual to follow.
That is not what the CSIS report said or the Globe and Mail reported. CSIS received information that a particular diplomat had said that China WOULD target Mr. Chong’s family. The diplomat did not claim it had happened.
You need to read more carefully. You also need to understand the definition of the term “target” in the intelligence world. It can mean a many things, please see my other comment.
Read it again "has taken specific actions to target Canadian MPs" and "MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP’s relatives" that's targeting.
Targeting a family for the purpose of "sanctions" and to "make an example of" is a threat.
Has taken actions to target indicates that whatever China was thinking of doing had not happened (yet).
Combined with the fact that there is absolutely no indication from Mr. Chong or his family that anything had happened to them, CSIS assessment that Mr. Chong’s family was not at risk was likely correct or at least reasonable.
Look, it is impossible that CSIS would write a report that just says that the family of an MP is of interest to China’s government. It would always come with an assessment of what the risk is. So then there are two options:
1) the government is full of psychopaths that are perfectly happy with a report that indicates potential harm to an MP’s family
Or
2) the report has a substantiated assessment that the risk is low or not credible and this part is omitted by Fife
What you’re forgetting Madison is the provincial premiers accepting money from the PBCC cult church and was trying to find a conservative fixer to harm our PM. How come conservatives get away with corruption, hate, back door deals, accepting bribes, accusations, slander, sabotage, 102 scandals against the law - where was the anger? Hired actors, bought media, treason, terrorism. Boy I could give you a list. But I think this pointing fingers is ridiculous when our PM has been accused of everything the conservatives did. Some liberals find our PM to left, too much compassion, yet people support media rags and social media propaganda, some say our PM needs to get more harsh yet little boys insult him he gets blamed by oil sniffers and climate activists. He’s been laced with so much hate, false accusations and a deflect from conservatives wrong doing where was everyone’s anger with conservatives with a German Nazi? These rcon cult churches with paedophiles and booze, why hasn’t anyone been angry over conservatives accepting donations from out of province, big corporations, out of country? Where’s the anger over conservatives buying troll and bot farms from Russia and China etc? This story was a added feature to deflect from conservatives corruption. It wasn’t even proven. We have people in CSIS, military etc that are fascists. We have conservative donors who aren’t stopped by the law. We have provincial governments trying to have their own police force. If that doesn’t terrify anyone then get the popcorn if you can afford popcorn. Funny how it’s ok for people to be paid to harm our PM when Rcons are a stack of foreign buddies with fascists like Putin. Nothing of truth gets reported and people continue to buy these controlled media, newspapers etc. And social media it’s ok for people to act like douche bags and threats but if you’re a liberal, NDP or Green voter you’re attacked by rcons robots. Your jailed before every election. We don’t have partisan news anymore, we don’t get the truth, but before attacking our PM on blame, let’s remember there’s Canadians and foreigners out there getting rich by conservatives to put out as much propaganda as possible. And the lack of critical thinking from the masses are letting this happen. It’s ok to oppose but it’s not ok to blame one man trying to do his best while rcons get away with way worse and are not held accountable. It’s citizens buying propaganda to hate and point fingers. If people wanna live in Fascism say so, then pay attention to who the real enemy is, and it’s not Trudeau as much as people are fed online and TV etc. All I see is a direct attack on our federal government while the conservatives are freely creating fake scandals and death to our elected officials. Until these conservatives are jailed, charged and convicted our PM is the better man. Singh sings more conservative then NDP and the NDP aren’t replacing him? Why? Those other NDP liars are just as bad, but I don’t see people calling them out? We have good charities being butchered by meatheads and people who still believe that crap. If the govt is overwhelmed with situations like the pandemic, why can’t other groups team up to help students? Where is team these days? Where are the women non voters? What female actually votes conservative? This old liberal hate has been a old play by the uninformed, people who are blind to conspiracy, cheerleaders for the 1% rich, and those that disrespect who’s better for our country. We have people looking for needles in haystacks to point fingers. Yet their own parties back yards are loaded with the worst people imaginable Canadian and foreign buyers, liars and corruption. While some reporters/writers put out a report sometimes it’s supposed to teach you to think, do your own research, think outside the box. People have to have a open mind, not hate, not jump on media sabotage/opinion but to think for themselves.
Considering the number of times that P.P. has lied in parliament, I certainly hope that you are calling for his resignation too. I haven't seen that, but I may have missed it. Maybe you can point us to that article.
Sorry Evan. You take on this is disturbing! You have fallen victim to a manufactured scandal by FIFE and the Cons and it appears you did not do your research or due diligence to confirm that! I am beyond disgusted to hear rant and suggestion that our PM should resign when this story broke Chong lied and said he nothing. Complete BS and Pierre's abusive goading in the HoC based on those lies should be the end of his and Michael's political careers. Now people like you are splitting hairs over all the nonsense rhetoric of when and who! The reality is CSIS informed Michael and the CPC and briefed him and stated not every threat is credible nor communicated to the PM. It is beyond insanity at this point! Everyone is also completely glossing over what the FIPA for 31 year deal is and how it related to this entire nonsense and how it intentionally ties the hinds o our government since Harper signed it secretly. China has power over our democracy! The signed it with no human rights clauses and every country wanted no part of it understanding the powers it gave an authoritarian nation. Any actions towards China would be retaliated! Chong, PP and senators all took large gifts from China. The CPC is fully projecting to try and deflect, destroy our democracy & gain power. For a year non stop manufactured scandals they have been trying to coup our government. You are aiding an abetting a coup and being fully ignorant to what is happening! They offer nothing to Canada but destruction and China's interference has made PP somehow untouchable. He cannot pass a security clearance. Want to do something be outraged, demand a complete investigation into their actions, then write somethin. There is no reason for our PM to resign over Conservative lies and torqued stories. 4 times Fife had dropped a timed BS scandal with no sources and based on lies and innuendos!
What's disturbing Sandy is your blind loyalty to Trudeau is as deranged as insane Trump supporter's blind loyalty to Trump.
To victim blame Chong as a liar when reputable facts have come out from CSIS, is a conspiracy theory. If the PM did lie, yes, he should resign for not only lying but sitting on foreign threats to an MP for two years (if that was the case). That you would not only excuse that, but spin conspiracy theories to deny CSIS documented facts that an MP was threatened as a fabrication, is what's disgusting.
Your conspiracy theory puts China above your own country, just to protect Trudeau when he's not even asking for your conspiracy theory.
You have just typed the very reason our nation is so at risk. I do not blindly support Trudeau and the Liberals. I vehemently oppose the Fascist CPC aligned with MAGA and Trump through the IDU. Pearl clutching victim blaming someone who fully lied to try and create a conspiracy theory is beyond reason. CSIS determines the level of risk. NOT our PM. If you want to make projection insults you should really take the time to fully understand what is at play here. FIPA, the Security Act
NO the CPC puts CHINA above Canada. They signed it into law with no human rights clauses. Not protecting Trudeau. Protecting our democracy even if it has been sold to China by the Cons. To be a conspiracy theory it needs to be untrue. Name calling projections of RW ideology makes any of your statements irrelevant!
Know what you speak of before you accuse. I worship no one. I do support our PM not blindly and his policies and democracy and will never support the FAR RW Cons and everything they represent. I am able to learn from the preview in the US and will fight to never allow that to happen here. The CPC does not work for Canada!
This. a thousand times this. If there were a credible threat to any MP they would know about it and so would the PMO. This is just Fife being Fife and hopefully LPC wins another election so he can be turfed and replaced with someone that reports evidence-based material.
You should reflect on how you have fallen for a BS scandal fully manufactured yet again by FIFE and the CPC and the spin has changed course at least 5 times after Michael and Pierre were caught blatantly lying about this! FIPA is the root cause and reason why this and the 2 Michaels happened and FIPA is a direct threat to our democracy and Pierre is deflecting very hard and very manically of what is to come about the China interference investigation. Pierre and the CPC circus theatre in the Ho for clips even yelling at the PM on camera and pretending he is not responding when the PM is not even there is a pretty big glaring insight into what they are doing. You also need to understand the parameters of the Security act and stop taking part in Conservative gaslighting trying to goad the Liberals into breaking those roles and have all of Canada's Classified Intelligence Briefings aired on You tube, Twitter and public. At some point regardless of side Canadians need to recognize the dangers of this alone and ask why the CPC is pushing for that weakness in our National Security! Canada is facing a Fascist IDU MAGA movement destroying our nation & many are playing right into their hands.
Sandy, what's truly a "MAGA movement" is your blind loyalty to Trudeau the same way those deranged nuts admire Trump.
You're willing to throw Canadian MPs, CSIS, and reputable facts under the bus to excuse China's actions, all for what? To defend Trudeau when he'd be disgusted by your conspiracy theories?
To fight QAnon, you have become QAnon. How did you get here?
Your attacks are delusional. Nothing I represent is Qanon which makes me suspect that is your true self! The CPC MP's do not work for Canada so NO. What facts are you presenting, none. Just attacking and insulting while you fully ignore reality!! You are what is wrong with our Nation. Who hurt you?
Madison are you a troll/robot/non thinker? Because what people are truthfully telling you, your not being a adult. You are being educated yet come back with zero knowledge of the truth and no try to think outside that box. Your to the point of childish. These comments are right but your comment comes back with zero facts. Thinking skills are lacked among haters. Truth is our PM is a subject to blame for everything wrong but not everything he did right. After how many years of Harper’s dictatorship and corruption he left people in poverty happily, it gave him power to harm. When prime minister Justin Trudeau got in those people treated let garbage by Harper got helped by Trudeau. Where’s the thank you? Not on media, not on the brains of haters. I’m a very ill person I don’t get help from any party but my passion for politics was since a child on the farm and in politics most of my adult life. You are using up people’s time, your power trip has no fact.
I believe all of this is the result of Robert Fife torquing another story. Perhaps combined with an overly secretive CSIS, but that is it.
Think about what this 2021 CSIS report would look like. It would contain the following elements:
1) Intelligence gathered
Chinese diplomat claims that Mr. Chong’s family in HK will be targeted.
2) Intelligence analysis
Targeted is an intel term, it does not mean aiming a gun at somebody, it means that the Chinese government will take an interest in Mr. Chong’s family in HK. This could mean gathering info, being a nuisance, subtle harassment, depriving them of economic opportunity, imprisonment or physical harm. The report almost certainly will define the nature of the expected targeting and why CSIS has come to that conclusion.
3) Risk assessment and next steps
CSIS has likely concluded, perhaps based on credible other intel, that the risk to Mr. Chong’s family is low or even nil. Based on that, a standard defensive briefing would be the logical next step and copy for info to PCO would be totally appropriate.
There is zero chance that this 2021 report would not have an analysis and risk assessment. But of course torquer in chief Fife would not leak that part of the report, because that would show that the CSIS had analyzed the info and made a reasonable conclusion.
Think about it this way, what is more likely?
A) CSIS writes a report that describes serious harm to the family of an MP and the government is filled with all psychopaths that are happy to do nothing with that info.
or
B) Robert Fife torques another story by misusing the term “targeted” and omitting key elements of a report.
Back in 2018 at the height of the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the Clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick, had a crucial conversation with the Justice Minister, Jody Reybold-Wilson. The outcome was negative. Did Mr. Wernick report to the Prime Minister on his conversation? No. It was December 22 and nobody was still in Ottawa. He couldn't get hold of the PM or others in the PMO.
Well, the PM's public agenda showed that the PM was in Ottawa on December 23 and 24, holding "private meetings". Clearly the PM was in Ottawa following Mr. Wernick's meeting. I concluded that Mr. Wernick had lied. After all, if I couldn't trust the PH amd his public agenda, whom can I trust?
Fast forward to October 2021. The Prime Minister couldn't attend reconciliation ceremonies with the Indigenous Peoples because, according to his public agenda, he was in Ottawa in "private meetings". Except that he was spotted surfboarding in Tofino, B.C. Whoops!
So it was the PM's public agenda that lied that second time. Maybe it was the public agenda, and not Mr. Wernick, that lied the first time.
Do you see a pattern developing here? Between choosing to believe the bureaucrats and the Prime Minister, I know who gets my priority.
Whether he was surfing or not doesn't really matter. What matters is that he was on holiday in Tofino on a day that was marked in his public agenda as meetings in Ottawa.
He lied then, he has lied multiple other times. In my book, that makes him a liar. Everything that he says must be checked before it is accepted as true.
- CSIS sent a report to the office of the National Security and Intelligence Adviser in July 2021. This report wouldn't have named the specific MP. Presumably it would have been up to the NSIA to follow up with CSIS and ask for details.
- The previous NSIA had retired in June 2021, and there wasn't an acting NSIA until November 2021. A permanent NSIA was appointed in January 2022. (Wark notes that it's unwise to leave a position like this open for months.) There were caretaker staff in the Privy Council Office, but they would have been dealing with other responsibilities as well (like Covid).
In other words, it's quite possible that this is a case of information falling through the cracks.
On the lack of detail in the report:
"The July 2021 CSIS IAB report apparently did not name any specific MPs targeted or Chinese intelligence officers involved, or add much detail about what 'specific actions' were being taken by Chinese MSS officers.
"All we know, according the Globe’s account, is that the CSIS report said that an unnamed MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP’s relatives 'who may be located in the PRC, for further potential sanctions.' The CSIS report deduced that this 'is almost certainly meant to make an example of this MP and deter others from taking anti-PRC positions.'"
What should have happened next:
"More problematic is to know what reaction is called for by generic warnings, or warnings that lack detail (or are not 'actionable,' in the vague parlance favoured by intelligence officials). Here there is a recourse built into the system. Intelligence reports are not meant to be static, take it or leave it, accounts. They are meant to operate in an intelligence cycle, in a feedback loop. Officials who receive reports ('consumers' in the biz jargon of the intelligence world) are meant to ask questions, ask for more, uncover some of the details that might not have made it into the text of a general report, require additional tasking of sources. There are systems in place to allow for this, including intelligence agency report carriers, known as 'Crows' (CROs—client relations officers). What we know to date suggests that this additional probing did not take place."
In other words, Robert Fife did torque the story by giving the impression that the government ignored clear and explicit warnings about the family of a particular MP.
Since everything I’ve learned about spying is from John Le Carré, I’m guessing we are all being played in some way, that none of us will ever get the whole truth, and that in 50 to 100 years, we’ll find out some of the true threats, motivations and reasons behind the behaviours of the people involved. Until then, I prefer to let you all speculate while I hope that China doesn’t invade us or attack us and I just concern myself worrying about the possibility of human extinction due to lack of action on climate change.
The Government of Canada has expelled the Chinese diplomat accused of targeting MP Michael Chong's family. Time will tell what the repercussions will be. Thanks to Stephen Harper and to a lesser degree Pierre Poilievre and the FIPA deal signed in secret, if China gets upset, we have to bow down to them; anyone ACTUALLY believe the this crop of Cons are fiscally conservative? They aren't.
Notice Trudeau does the right thing but conservatives never ever admit to anything but Trudeau is attacked but conservatives can get away with murder and sexual assault on young girls? Don’t ask me questions but let’s attack Trudeau ok?
Disagree, if you wanna talk about liars let’s look at the conservatives. Who also lied and spread this nonsense to hide their disgrace with a Nazi. It’s nothing about lying it’s about conservatives hiding facts about themselves
Evan, I see on Twitter that these comments have hit a nerve.
While it is chilling for Mr. Chong to know that the Chinese government has taken an interest in his family, this can hardly be a surprise to him. And he said so in an interview in 2021. However, unless you are prepared to believe that CSIS is staffed exclusively by 100% psychopaths, CSIS must have made the determination that the risk was low and presented internally the analysis why this was the case. And this analysis why the risk was low (or nil) would be in the same report, but of course it would not be the part that Bob Fife would leak.
CSIS gets hundreds of pieces of information on a daily basis. It is their job to determine what is real, what is false, what is important and what needs to shared with other parts of government. And if there was a risk of physical harm to Mr. Chong’s family, by law CSIS must inform the RCMP. In this case the decision was made it was appropriate to give Mr. Chong a defensive briefing and it was not needed to raise the alarm further inside the government. All of this would entirely reasonable and following the normal procedures that have been in place for many years and during governments of various colour. Now, we could argue that these procedures need to be changed, but to assign bad faith to this is a step too far.
Now, let’s have a look what the CPC and Mr. Chong have claimed. They have claimed that the PM had knowledge of this and deliberately did not act. Not clear what political advantage this would bring, but the starting point for the CPC (and unfortunately Mr. Chong as well, it used not to be the case) is that the PM and his cabinet act in bad faith to gain some unknown political gain.
Then, the claim by the CPC and Mr. Chong became that the PM did not know, but designed the system deliberately to make sure he would not be informed. Again without a shred of evidence how the PM designed or changed the system to stay uninformed. And Mr. Chong was the most vocal in this particular accusation.
It is totally fair that we may need to look on how CSIS and other parts of government deals with potential threats to MPs and their families. But that is not what the CPC and Mr. Chong focus on, they exclusively focus on how this is further evidence that PM is corrupt and acting not in the interest of Canada without offering a shred of evidence or logic.
Mr. Chong used to be one of the more honourable politicians that would not assign automatically malice (or treason) to anything the other party might do or propose. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case anymore. Disappointing.
You think Trudeau is corrupt after the clear corruption from federal and provincial conservatives, Harper’s deal with China? It’s nothing compared to anything the liberals do and media that is bought
I don’t think Trudeau is corrupt. Nor do I think he is aiding the Chinese government. And the same applies to Harper. While I dislike his policies, I do not think is corrupt or under influence of a foreign power.
We need to be able to criticize the government, regardless of party, without accusations of what is basically treason.
Lol well that’s a weak comment, show me where people are disagreeing with racism, sexual assault and job assaults towards women? Show me where Singh and Pierre aren’t attacking on the same thing? Conservatives and liberals are not even close alike. And the federal NDP ain’t so great either
Any important member of the Chinese diaspora knows that public criticism directed at the PRC has the potential to attract trouble, they just know and much has been written about this. People have to be incredibly naïve to assume Chong did not know this, and that even his party would have warned him. How we wish we would have been the fly on the wall during the briefing(s), has it occurred to anyone that it would make perfect sense that he would have asked the all important question "my family?"
One other thing. Can we now all agree that the leaker that is buddy with Fife has no altruistic motives? Arguments like the government is not taking the threat of China serious enough and therefore I am forced to leak this material are rather hollow now.
After all, this potential threat to Mr. Chong was not serious enough to report up and at the same time serious enough to break the law regarding classified information.
This "JT needs to resign" thing has to end, and soon.
ELECTIONS decide who the prime minister is, not scandals.
And guess what, polling is such that it's likely gonna be a CPC minority or or LPC minority + BQ supporting either.
And I hit Wiki (I know, I know) and NO ONE has resigned in office. Not Harper, not Mulroney, not Chrétien, not Martin, not Laurier...a prime minister resigns his position only when defeated in a general election.
As for the Chong affair, why didn't he come public before now? Seeing how sinophobic the CPC is this is just them trying to get airtime and I'm just gonna ignore it until polls tank for the LPC. As should the LPC, to be hoenst.
Lol Trudeau scandals? Where have you been? Harper has scandals against the law. Trudeau has one ethics charge and I back what he did for workers and a business that once belonged to us. I’d like to know where you guys call it scandals? When we have a federal NDP who’s confused that he’s a conservative not a NDP’er. Federal NDP hasn’t been fighting for democracy at all. Did people not follow Harper at all? How about the NDP and closed 50 hospital stories? Do NDP voters enjoy that? How dare Hogan and what’s his face take to questioning the best WE charity with the lying Pierre Poilievre making a nothing burger. Singh, hogan and what’s his face are not factual people, they are as mean as the conservatives. JT better not resign because it ain’t gonna matter to arrogant people who’s next in the liberal line. This adult immaturity and hate is ridiculous when we know who the real criminals are and they are the Trump Canadian reformed conservatives
Evan, let me fix the title of your article:
Canada is the victim of another torqued Fife lie and Michael Chong is a willing participant.
You're willing to ignore facts and victim blame Chong with your conspiracy theory, all to protect your blind loyalty to Trudeau.
You're just as deranged as QAnon. It's disturbing.
What facts am I ignoring?
The fact that there is no report of any harm or harassment of Mr. Chong’s family in HK?
The fact that a report this kind would always contain an analysis and a substantiated risk assessment?
The fact that Robert Fife is a self-admitted torquer?
The fact that CSIS reported that China targeted his family "for further potential sanctions” and “to make an example of” (article: China views Canada as a ‘high priority’ for interference: CSIS report)
The fact that CSIS, the formal organization, again confirmed this happened (article: CSIS head tells MP Michael Chong that he and family were targeted by China).
And the fact that you dismiss Globe and Mail as fake news the same way Trump does.
Downplaying China's actions over your own country, why? You're that partisan? MAGA was a danger warning, not an instruction manual to follow.
That is not what the CSIS report said or the Globe and Mail reported. CSIS received information that a particular diplomat had said that China WOULD target Mr. Chong’s family. The diplomat did not claim it had happened.
You need to read more carefully. You also need to understand the definition of the term “target” in the intelligence world. It can mean a many things, please see my other comment.
Read it again "has taken specific actions to target Canadian MPs" and "MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP’s relatives" that's targeting.
Targeting a family for the purpose of "sanctions" and to "make an example of" is a threat.
Why are you downplaying this?
Has taken actions to target indicates that whatever China was thinking of doing had not happened (yet).
Combined with the fact that there is absolutely no indication from Mr. Chong or his family that anything had happened to them, CSIS assessment that Mr. Chong’s family was not at risk was likely correct or at least reasonable.
Look, it is impossible that CSIS would write a report that just says that the family of an MP is of interest to China’s government. It would always come with an assessment of what the risk is. So then there are two options:
1) the government is full of psychopaths that are perfectly happy with a report that indicates potential harm to an MP’s family
Or
2) the report has a substantiated assessment that the risk is low or not credible and this part is omitted by Fife
What is more likely?
What you’re forgetting Madison is the provincial premiers accepting money from the PBCC cult church and was trying to find a conservative fixer to harm our PM. How come conservatives get away with corruption, hate, back door deals, accepting bribes, accusations, slander, sabotage, 102 scandals against the law - where was the anger? Hired actors, bought media, treason, terrorism. Boy I could give you a list. But I think this pointing fingers is ridiculous when our PM has been accused of everything the conservatives did. Some liberals find our PM to left, too much compassion, yet people support media rags and social media propaganda, some say our PM needs to get more harsh yet little boys insult him he gets blamed by oil sniffers and climate activists. He’s been laced with so much hate, false accusations and a deflect from conservatives wrong doing where was everyone’s anger with conservatives with a German Nazi? These rcon cult churches with paedophiles and booze, why hasn’t anyone been angry over conservatives accepting donations from out of province, big corporations, out of country? Where’s the anger over conservatives buying troll and bot farms from Russia and China etc? This story was a added feature to deflect from conservatives corruption. It wasn’t even proven. We have people in CSIS, military etc that are fascists. We have conservative donors who aren’t stopped by the law. We have provincial governments trying to have their own police force. If that doesn’t terrify anyone then get the popcorn if you can afford popcorn. Funny how it’s ok for people to be paid to harm our PM when Rcons are a stack of foreign buddies with fascists like Putin. Nothing of truth gets reported and people continue to buy these controlled media, newspapers etc. And social media it’s ok for people to act like douche bags and threats but if you’re a liberal, NDP or Green voter you’re attacked by rcons robots. Your jailed before every election. We don’t have partisan news anymore, we don’t get the truth, but before attacking our PM on blame, let’s remember there’s Canadians and foreigners out there getting rich by conservatives to put out as much propaganda as possible. And the lack of critical thinking from the masses are letting this happen. It’s ok to oppose but it’s not ok to blame one man trying to do his best while rcons get away with way worse and are not held accountable. It’s citizens buying propaganda to hate and point fingers. If people wanna live in Fascism say so, then pay attention to who the real enemy is, and it’s not Trudeau as much as people are fed online and TV etc. All I see is a direct attack on our federal government while the conservatives are freely creating fake scandals and death to our elected officials. Until these conservatives are jailed, charged and convicted our PM is the better man. Singh sings more conservative then NDP and the NDP aren’t replacing him? Why? Those other NDP liars are just as bad, but I don’t see people calling them out? We have good charities being butchered by meatheads and people who still believe that crap. If the govt is overwhelmed with situations like the pandemic, why can’t other groups team up to help students? Where is team these days? Where are the women non voters? What female actually votes conservative? This old liberal hate has been a old play by the uninformed, people who are blind to conspiracy, cheerleaders for the 1% rich, and those that disrespect who’s better for our country. We have people looking for needles in haystacks to point fingers. Yet their own parties back yards are loaded with the worst people imaginable Canadian and foreign buyers, liars and corruption. While some reporters/writers put out a report sometimes it’s supposed to teach you to think, do your own research, think outside the box. People have to have a open mind, not hate, not jump on media sabotage/opinion but to think for themselves.
One thing I have not heard much about. Why is China targetting the family of a member of the opposition who has no power? What is the end game?
I don't think China cares about that aspect really, just don't criticize the regime.
Your replies and insinuations are disturbing
Considering the number of times that P.P. has lied in parliament, I certainly hope that you are calling for his resignation too. I haven't seen that, but I may have missed it. Maybe you can point us to that article.
Sorry Evan. You take on this is disturbing! You have fallen victim to a manufactured scandal by FIFE and the Cons and it appears you did not do your research or due diligence to confirm that! I am beyond disgusted to hear rant and suggestion that our PM should resign when this story broke Chong lied and said he nothing. Complete BS and Pierre's abusive goading in the HoC based on those lies should be the end of his and Michael's political careers. Now people like you are splitting hairs over all the nonsense rhetoric of when and who! The reality is CSIS informed Michael and the CPC and briefed him and stated not every threat is credible nor communicated to the PM. It is beyond insanity at this point! Everyone is also completely glossing over what the FIPA for 31 year deal is and how it related to this entire nonsense and how it intentionally ties the hinds o our government since Harper signed it secretly. China has power over our democracy! The signed it with no human rights clauses and every country wanted no part of it understanding the powers it gave an authoritarian nation. Any actions towards China would be retaliated! Chong, PP and senators all took large gifts from China. The CPC is fully projecting to try and deflect, destroy our democracy & gain power. For a year non stop manufactured scandals they have been trying to coup our government. You are aiding an abetting a coup and being fully ignorant to what is happening! They offer nothing to Canada but destruction and China's interference has made PP somehow untouchable. He cannot pass a security clearance. Want to do something be outraged, demand a complete investigation into their actions, then write somethin. There is no reason for our PM to resign over Conservative lies and torqued stories. 4 times Fife had dropped a timed BS scandal with no sources and based on lies and innuendos!
What's disturbing Sandy is your blind loyalty to Trudeau is as deranged as insane Trump supporter's blind loyalty to Trump.
To victim blame Chong as a liar when reputable facts have come out from CSIS, is a conspiracy theory. If the PM did lie, yes, he should resign for not only lying but sitting on foreign threats to an MP for two years (if that was the case). That you would not only excuse that, but spin conspiracy theories to deny CSIS documented facts that an MP was threatened as a fabrication, is what's disgusting.
Your conspiracy theory puts China above your own country, just to protect Trudeau when he's not even asking for your conspiracy theory.
Sandy, you're no different from QAnon.
You have just typed the very reason our nation is so at risk. I do not blindly support Trudeau and the Liberals. I vehemently oppose the Fascist CPC aligned with MAGA and Trump through the IDU. Pearl clutching victim blaming someone who fully lied to try and create a conspiracy theory is beyond reason. CSIS determines the level of risk. NOT our PM. If you want to make projection insults you should really take the time to fully understand what is at play here. FIPA, the Security Act
NO the CPC puts CHINA above Canada. They signed it into law with no human rights clauses. Not protecting Trudeau. Protecting our democracy even if it has been sold to China by the Cons. To be a conspiracy theory it needs to be untrue. Name calling projections of RW ideology makes any of your statements irrelevant!
Know what you speak of before you accuse. I worship no one. I do support our PM not blindly and his policies and democracy and will never support the FAR RW Cons and everything they represent. I am able to learn from the preview in the US and will fight to never allow that to happen here. The CPC does not work for Canada!
CSIS makes the determination of threats!!
"CSIS makes the determination of threats!!"
This. a thousand times this. If there were a credible threat to any MP they would know about it and so would the PMO. This is just Fife being Fife and hopefully LPC wins another election so he can be turfed and replaced with someone that reports evidence-based material.
Profanities do not enhance your essay
I think that's the "unscripted" part of Scrimshaw Unscripted
You should reflect on how you have fallen for a BS scandal fully manufactured yet again by FIFE and the CPC and the spin has changed course at least 5 times after Michael and Pierre were caught blatantly lying about this! FIPA is the root cause and reason why this and the 2 Michaels happened and FIPA is a direct threat to our democracy and Pierre is deflecting very hard and very manically of what is to come about the China interference investigation. Pierre and the CPC circus theatre in the Ho for clips even yelling at the PM on camera and pretending he is not responding when the PM is not even there is a pretty big glaring insight into what they are doing. You also need to understand the parameters of the Security act and stop taking part in Conservative gaslighting trying to goad the Liberals into breaking those roles and have all of Canada's Classified Intelligence Briefings aired on You tube, Twitter and public. At some point regardless of side Canadians need to recognize the dangers of this alone and ask why the CPC is pushing for that weakness in our National Security! Canada is facing a Fascist IDU MAGA movement destroying our nation & many are playing right into their hands.
Sandy, what's truly a "MAGA movement" is your blind loyalty to Trudeau the same way those deranged nuts admire Trump.
You're willing to throw Canadian MPs, CSIS, and reputable facts under the bus to excuse China's actions, all for what? To defend Trudeau when he'd be disgusted by your conspiracy theories?
To fight QAnon, you have become QAnon. How did you get here?
"Q" is fictional.
Justin Trudea is a real person with flaws and qualities.
You are as silly as Coyne using this avenue.
And if you have evidence of Chinese actions, should I inform CSIS and the RCMP so they can contact you?
Please inform CSIS, they're the evidence. Or you can just read the article, unless you're one of those who thinks it's fake news too.
Your attacks are delusional. Nothing I represent is Qanon which makes me suspect that is your true self! The CPC MP's do not work for Canada so NO. What facts are you presenting, none. Just attacking and insulting while you fully ignore reality!! You are what is wrong with our Nation. Who hurt you?
Madison are you a troll/robot/non thinker? Because what people are truthfully telling you, your not being a adult. You are being educated yet come back with zero knowledge of the truth and no try to think outside that box. Your to the point of childish. These comments are right but your comment comes back with zero facts. Thinking skills are lacked among haters. Truth is our PM is a subject to blame for everything wrong but not everything he did right. After how many years of Harper’s dictatorship and corruption he left people in poverty happily, it gave him power to harm. When prime minister Justin Trudeau got in those people treated let garbage by Harper got helped by Trudeau. Where’s the thank you? Not on media, not on the brains of haters. I’m a very ill person I don’t get help from any party but my passion for politics was since a child on the farm and in politics most of my adult life. You are using up people’s time, your power trip has no fact.
I believe all of this is the result of Robert Fife torquing another story. Perhaps combined with an overly secretive CSIS, but that is it.
Think about what this 2021 CSIS report would look like. It would contain the following elements:
1) Intelligence gathered
Chinese diplomat claims that Mr. Chong’s family in HK will be targeted.
2) Intelligence analysis
Targeted is an intel term, it does not mean aiming a gun at somebody, it means that the Chinese government will take an interest in Mr. Chong’s family in HK. This could mean gathering info, being a nuisance, subtle harassment, depriving them of economic opportunity, imprisonment or physical harm. The report almost certainly will define the nature of the expected targeting and why CSIS has come to that conclusion.
3) Risk assessment and next steps
CSIS has likely concluded, perhaps based on credible other intel, that the risk to Mr. Chong’s family is low or even nil. Based on that, a standard defensive briefing would be the logical next step and copy for info to PCO would be totally appropriate.
There is zero chance that this 2021 report would not have an analysis and risk assessment. But of course torquer in chief Fife would not leak that part of the report, because that would show that the CSIS had analyzed the info and made a reasonable conclusion.
Think about it this way, what is more likely?
A) CSIS writes a report that describes serious harm to the family of an MP and the government is filled with all psychopaths that are happy to do nothing with that info.
or
B) Robert Fife torques another story by misusing the term “targeted” and omitting key elements of a report.
Back in 2018 at the height of the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the Clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick, had a crucial conversation with the Justice Minister, Jody Reybold-Wilson. The outcome was negative. Did Mr. Wernick report to the Prime Minister on his conversation? No. It was December 22 and nobody was still in Ottawa. He couldn't get hold of the PM or others in the PMO.
Well, the PM's public agenda showed that the PM was in Ottawa on December 23 and 24, holding "private meetings". Clearly the PM was in Ottawa following Mr. Wernick's meeting. I concluded that Mr. Wernick had lied. After all, if I couldn't trust the PH amd his public agenda, whom can I trust?
Fast forward to October 2021. The Prime Minister couldn't attend reconciliation ceremonies with the Indigenous Peoples because, according to his public agenda, he was in Ottawa in "private meetings". Except that he was spotted surfboarding in Tofino, B.C. Whoops!
So it was the PM's public agenda that lied that second time. Maybe it was the public agenda, and not Mr. Wernick, that lied the first time.
Do you see a pattern developing here? Between choosing to believe the bureaucrats and the Prime Minister, I know who gets my priority.
Whoops ! Trudeau was spotting walking with his wife..
The 2021 myth is based on photos in wet suit and with board
from a prior visit April 2019 - maybe check your gossip source
Whether he was surfing or not doesn't really matter. What matters is that he was on holiday in Tofino on a day that was marked in his public agenda as meetings in Ottawa.
He lied then, he has lied multiple other times. In my book, that makes him a liar. Everything that he says must be checked before it is accepted as true.
Wesley Wark has a post talking about this: https://wesleywark.substack.com/p/intelligence-shared-sort-of
- CSIS sent a report to the office of the National Security and Intelligence Adviser in July 2021. This report wouldn't have named the specific MP. Presumably it would have been up to the NSIA to follow up with CSIS and ask for details.
- The previous NSIA had retired in June 2021, and there wasn't an acting NSIA until November 2021. A permanent NSIA was appointed in January 2022. (Wark notes that it's unwise to leave a position like this open for months.) There were caretaker staff in the Privy Council Office, but they would have been dealing with other responsibilities as well (like Covid).
In other words, it's quite possible that this is a case of information falling through the cracks.
On the lack of detail in the report:
"The July 2021 CSIS IAB report apparently did not name any specific MPs targeted or Chinese intelligence officers involved, or add much detail about what 'specific actions' were being taken by Chinese MSS officers.
"All we know, according the Globe’s account, is that the CSIS report said that an unnamed MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP’s relatives 'who may be located in the PRC, for further potential sanctions.' The CSIS report deduced that this 'is almost certainly meant to make an example of this MP and deter others from taking anti-PRC positions.'"
What should have happened next:
"More problematic is to know what reaction is called for by generic warnings, or warnings that lack detail (or are not 'actionable,' in the vague parlance favoured by intelligence officials). Here there is a recourse built into the system. Intelligence reports are not meant to be static, take it or leave it, accounts. They are meant to operate in an intelligence cycle, in a feedback loop. Officials who receive reports ('consumers' in the biz jargon of the intelligence world) are meant to ask questions, ask for more, uncover some of the details that might not have made it into the text of a general report, require additional tasking of sources. There are systems in place to allow for this, including intelligence agency report carriers, known as 'Crows' (CROs—client relations officers). What we know to date suggests that this additional probing did not take place."
In other words, Robert Fife did torque the story by giving the impression that the government ignored clear and explicit warnings about the family of a particular MP.
Since everything I’ve learned about spying is from John Le Carré, I’m guessing we are all being played in some way, that none of us will ever get the whole truth, and that in 50 to 100 years, we’ll find out some of the true threats, motivations and reasons behind the behaviours of the people involved. Until then, I prefer to let you all speculate while I hope that China doesn’t invade us or attack us and I just concern myself worrying about the possibility of human extinction due to lack of action on climate change.
The Government of Canada has expelled the Chinese diplomat accused of targeting MP Michael Chong's family. Time will tell what the repercussions will be. Thanks to Stephen Harper and to a lesser degree Pierre Poilievre and the FIPA deal signed in secret, if China gets upset, we have to bow down to them; anyone ACTUALLY believe the this crop of Cons are fiscally conservative? They aren't.
Notice Trudeau does the right thing but conservatives never ever admit to anything but Trudeau is attacked but conservatives can get away with murder and sexual assault on young girls? Don’t ask me questions but let’s attack Trudeau ok?
Disagree, if you wanna talk about liars let’s look at the conservatives. Who also lied and spread this nonsense to hide their disgrace with a Nazi. It’s nothing about lying it’s about conservatives hiding facts about themselves
Evan, I see on Twitter that these comments have hit a nerve.
While it is chilling for Mr. Chong to know that the Chinese government has taken an interest in his family, this can hardly be a surprise to him. And he said so in an interview in 2021. However, unless you are prepared to believe that CSIS is staffed exclusively by 100% psychopaths, CSIS must have made the determination that the risk was low and presented internally the analysis why this was the case. And this analysis why the risk was low (or nil) would be in the same report, but of course it would not be the part that Bob Fife would leak.
CSIS gets hundreds of pieces of information on a daily basis. It is their job to determine what is real, what is false, what is important and what needs to shared with other parts of government. And if there was a risk of physical harm to Mr. Chong’s family, by law CSIS must inform the RCMP. In this case the decision was made it was appropriate to give Mr. Chong a defensive briefing and it was not needed to raise the alarm further inside the government. All of this would entirely reasonable and following the normal procedures that have been in place for many years and during governments of various colour. Now, we could argue that these procedures need to be changed, but to assign bad faith to this is a step too far.
Now, let’s have a look what the CPC and Mr. Chong have claimed. They have claimed that the PM had knowledge of this and deliberately did not act. Not clear what political advantage this would bring, but the starting point for the CPC (and unfortunately Mr. Chong as well, it used not to be the case) is that the PM and his cabinet act in bad faith to gain some unknown political gain.
Then, the claim by the CPC and Mr. Chong became that the PM did not know, but designed the system deliberately to make sure he would not be informed. Again without a shred of evidence how the PM designed or changed the system to stay uninformed. And Mr. Chong was the most vocal in this particular accusation.
It is totally fair that we may need to look on how CSIS and other parts of government deals with potential threats to MPs and their families. But that is not what the CPC and Mr. Chong focus on, they exclusively focus on how this is further evidence that PM is corrupt and acting not in the interest of Canada without offering a shred of evidence or logic.
Mr. Chong used to be one of the more honourable politicians that would not assign automatically malice (or treason) to anything the other party might do or propose. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case anymore. Disappointing.
You think Trudeau is corrupt after the clear corruption from federal and provincial conservatives, Harper’s deal with China? It’s nothing compared to anything the liberals do and media that is bought
I don’t think Trudeau is corrupt. Nor do I think he is aiding the Chinese government. And the same applies to Harper. While I dislike his policies, I do not think is corrupt or under influence of a foreign power.
We need to be able to criticize the government, regardless of party, without accusations of what is basically treason.
Lol well that’s a weak comment, show me where people are disagreeing with racism, sexual assault and job assaults towards women? Show me where Singh and Pierre aren’t attacking on the same thing? Conservatives and liberals are not even close alike. And the federal NDP ain’t so great either
"MP Chong: What I said wasn't actually true and here is a clarification.
Also MP Chong: It's still the PM's fault only not the way I originally said. My story is still credible though, right?"
Any important member of the Chinese diaspora knows that public criticism directed at the PRC has the potential to attract trouble, they just know and much has been written about this. People have to be incredibly naïve to assume Chong did not know this, and that even his party would have warned him. How we wish we would have been the fly on the wall during the briefing(s), has it occurred to anyone that it would make perfect sense that he would have asked the all important question "my family?"
One other thing. Can we now all agree that the leaker that is buddy with Fife has no altruistic motives? Arguments like the government is not taking the threat of China serious enough and therefore I am forced to leak this material are rather hollow now.
After all, this potential threat to Mr. Chong was not serious enough to report up and at the same time serious enough to break the law regarding classified information.
This "JT needs to resign" thing has to end, and soon.
ELECTIONS decide who the prime minister is, not scandals.
And guess what, polling is such that it's likely gonna be a CPC minority or or LPC minority + BQ supporting either.
And I hit Wiki (I know, I know) and NO ONE has resigned in office. Not Harper, not Mulroney, not Chrétien, not Martin, not Laurier...a prime minister resigns his position only when defeated in a general election.
As for the Chong affair, why didn't he come public before now? Seeing how sinophobic the CPC is this is just them trying to get airtime and I'm just gonna ignore it until polls tank for the LPC. As should the LPC, to be hoenst.
Disagree so how come you never forced Harper to resign when he ran as a corrupt leader? I’m part of that group Harper attacked.
Lol Trudeau scandals? Where have you been? Harper has scandals against the law. Trudeau has one ethics charge and I back what he did for workers and a business that once belonged to us. I’d like to know where you guys call it scandals? When we have a federal NDP who’s confused that he’s a conservative not a NDP’er. Federal NDP hasn’t been fighting for democracy at all. Did people not follow Harper at all? How about the NDP and closed 50 hospital stories? Do NDP voters enjoy that? How dare Hogan and what’s his face take to questioning the best WE charity with the lying Pierre Poilievre making a nothing burger. Singh, hogan and what’s his face are not factual people, they are as mean as the conservatives. JT better not resign because it ain’t gonna matter to arrogant people who’s next in the liberal line. This adult immaturity and hate is ridiculous when we know who the real criminals are and they are the Trump Canadian reformed conservatives
Chrétien was never defeated in a general election.