I think this is a bit premature. All kinds of rumours are flying around about who is in, who is out, how many ministers, junior ministers etc. Let’s wait and see what the actual complete picture is.
In any case, from what I have seen of Carney, I would expect a fairly business-like approach to cabinet positions. Ministers will receive clear mandate letters and will be expected to run their files efficiently and effectively. I suspect that underperforming ministers will be replaced rather quickly.
Regarding NES, I think he can be successful in many roles, not just housing. I would hope Carney sees this as well and uses him in a role where he develops further as a potential future leader.
EDIT: unfortunately there was indeed not an immediate role for NES to contribute to cabinet. I think this is a missed opportunity for Carney, but there are another 130 disappointed MPS in the Liberal caucus. The statement by NES was almost perfect, except for one word: “disrespected”.
Disrespected means that that he feels he was owed something. Is that based on his opinion that for him staying and taking a minister role he is owed something? If so, then he is a Prima Donna. If he was explicitly promised something, well then it is better to stay quiet and remind the people that matter he is owed a role at a later moment in time, but in the meantime he will be a good team player.
I wish that Carney had done that. But after fully supporting Carney and doing double duty as gousing minister and candidate, NES has been dumped in the trash.
That is a bit too dramatic. 80% of the Liberals caucus is disappointed today. The chance of being part of the 80% is far greater than being part of cabinet. Talents like NES will find a way to shine as an MP. And not all cabinet members will reach the finish line, there will be opportunities along the way.
It must be exhausting to be this rage filled. Perhaps wait to see what the package and mandates look like before launching off on this type of bitter tirade?
Mark Carney was chosen to lead the Liberals precisely because he is a centrist. Why would you expect him to continue policy-making along the lines that lead to the previous Liberal government cratering its support?
"The Left" (your term) still appears to be more concerned with its own ideology, than how it is we're supposed to pay for implementing all of it.
As the political backroom wizard-of-wins James Carville made Bill Clinton memorize: "It's the economy, stupid" (and I'm not calling anyone stupid-that's the direct quote).
More than 40% of Canadians voted for a much more right-wing party. CPC support grew, and they denied the Liberals a majority. That should tell us something about how out-of-touch government was with the concerns and cares of average people.
And lots of those folks are frustrated, and feeling trapped. Just about everyone I know in my circle of family and friends is quietly stressed because of the past 4 years of price hikes in groceries, utilities, property taxes, and pretty much everything they need to live.
That's proved fertile ground for hardcore conservatives. And the longer the left keeps trying to turn the Liberal party into New Democrats, the more ammunition it hands to the far right wing, the radical Maple Maga extremists who are so skilled at twisting the narrative. Their grievance- based rage farming loses its appeal, when people feel some optimism about their own future.
We have GOT to stop polarizing our politics into "left" and "right", and instead start treating our challenges as issues to be solved for all Canadians. Who cares where the idea comes from. At this point, good policy test questions should be :Can it help the greatest number of citizens, and what are we using to pay for it?
Put an NDP member, and a Conservative in cabinet, if that's what it takes. But don't feel personally betrayed because the country has sent a pretty clear message about its concerns. It may mean, for a while at least, putting the economy and our national security ahead of advancements on the social justice front.
Let's put it this way -- NES was a good minister and an excellent communicator who got dumped in the trash by Carney. Left or right, it shows poor judgment to not use someone as good as that.
While I will be surprised and disappointed to see Nate out of cabinet, if this indeed true - I do think this is a rather hyperbolic over-reaction to such an occurrence. Nate isn’t some sort of political saviour wizard that we can’t live without. There are a lot of capable MPs to choose from, and many regional and demographic communities to represent in cabinet - which is no easy feat while trying to keep the cabinet at a reasonable size.
And I don’t fully accept your “deal with the left” narrative - that’s not how regular voters think or were thinking when they voted Carney. Maybe some insiders or highly engaged lefties were thinking this way, but Nate isn’t necessarily their standard bearer either. Also, Dippers voting Liberal wasn’t a consequence of some kind of deal or plea offered by Carney. Those voters are not firm NDP voters - they can move. And they moved on their own to stop Poilievre. Do they need to be considered and placated to some degree with policies so they stay in the fold? Sure, but it will be about policy and results, not about keeping a specific person in cabinet. Most voters do not know who is in cabinet.
I'll be honest - I didn't want the Liberals to win this election, but the one silver lining for me once they did was the possibility of Nate Erskine Smith holding onto the housing file. He is one of the rare few who get how monumental this issue is and why monumental action is needed. Now that hope is gone, it'll be even more bitter to see the likes of Anita Anand and Sean Fraser - rats who returned once the ship was no longer sinking - be rewarded with Cabinet posts. I'll be tuning in tomorrow regardless to see the famed crisis manager's other picks.
I think that is rather unkind. When Anand and Fraser changed their minds the Liberals were still well behind in the polls. There was no guarantee for success at all at that moment.
Nate also said that he would not run again, like Fraser he has yount children, but when Fraser quit, he stepped back in and picked up the pieces. That's being a true team player.
Now the housing portfolio has been given to Evan Solomon, a new MP who will need time to get up and running as an MP much less as a minister. How is th8s good for something as important as housing?
Human sure, but it was the naked opportunism that turned me off and drew so much mockery from many quarters. Fraser pretended to want to spend more time with his young kids. Well, those kids sure grew up fast! And he had no qualms kicking out the Liberal candidate who had already been chosen for that riding - that was disgusting on an ethical level. As for Anand, she pretended she wanted to turn her attention to challenges in a different domain. Well, the lure of another Cabinet seat is...very different, I guess.
If they had eaten some humble pie and were honest enough to say they were returning because the boss had changed and Liberal fortunes had changed, I would have had some respect for them.
Why can't it just be that a bad boss finally left, in a scenario (a parliament) where no top-down hierarchical corporate bosses should have existed in the first place?
Elected members of parliament should NEVER be treated as staff by a corporation of corporate executive! Normalizing parliament being a warzone between competing corporate special interests is fundamentally anti-democratic!
Why attribute opportunism to the more respectable MPs that put country before party or party leader?
Why can't LPC loyalists look at that failure and change party policy so that it is the caucus that decides who the leader is, not a corporation operating outside of parliament or some individual?
Trudeau needed to go a long time ago, and the ideology behind this cult of leadership is risking the very existence of Canada. It would be ideal if some of the damage done by P.E. Trudeau to Canada’s Democratic Institutions are rescinded with the bookend of Justin Trudeau finally leaving.
I do not think Anand's return was problematic as she had planned to return to academia. She is a star so do not mind her return. I agree with you with respect to Fraser as he cited the famous spending time with family reason. He did kick someone out. I hope he turns out outstanding to overcome your rightly earned cynicism. Cheers
If you wanted leftist policies, you probably should have voted for the leftwing party. Why did you think you were going to get some platform other than the one he ran on?
This article is especially hilarious in light of what you had to say about the NDP... ABC "strategic voting" brainrot is American-style mental illness.
My husband and I started reading (and really enjoying and appreciating) you during the election. This morning he said to me about this latest piece, "what's with Scrimshaw", and I agree, it seems hasty and too soon for "Catastrophic" and "Betrayal".
Not at all. Booting NES is a clear message to the left wing of the party: sit down, shut up, and get out of the way. We'll be governing like Progressive Conservatives and you'll like it.
According to an anonymous source, Nate will be replaced by Gregor Robertson, former Vancouver mayor and NDP provincial MLA. While I understand that Nate's supporters may be upset, I don't see this as a major betrayal of progressive voters—it's a case of one progressive being replaced by another one.
Yeah, because Vancouver is such a paradise of housing affordability. Guy could be the second coming of Tommy Douglas and he's starting off ten steps behind just because of that.
The Carney government is all about the Economy and get it moving again. I am traditionally left but I understand we can't be weighed down in bureaucracy or we will never progress.
Bang on. Carney has made clear what this government is going to be like - this will be Conservatives in red shirts, which, frankly, is what we should always have expected from him.
I'm waiting until after I see the full cabinet. Are there some floor crossings?
Does Elizabeth May do the right thing and finally take the Green team jersey off and make clear she is actually a LPC fan? (Note: I was a Green Party campaigner in the 1990's, so have been following that party's drama for decades).
At least two more to go? More than two for safety?
I think this is a bit premature. All kinds of rumours are flying around about who is in, who is out, how many ministers, junior ministers etc. Let’s wait and see what the actual complete picture is.
In any case, from what I have seen of Carney, I would expect a fairly business-like approach to cabinet positions. Ministers will receive clear mandate letters and will be expected to run their files efficiently and effectively. I suspect that underperforming ministers will be replaced rather quickly.
Regarding NES, I think he can be successful in many roles, not just housing. I would hope Carney sees this as well and uses him in a role where he develops further as a potential future leader.
EDIT: unfortunately there was indeed not an immediate role for NES to contribute to cabinet. I think this is a missed opportunity for Carney, but there are another 130 disappointed MPS in the Liberal caucus. The statement by NES was almost perfect, except for one word: “disrespected”.
Disrespected means that that he feels he was owed something. Is that based on his opinion that for him staying and taking a minister role he is owed something? If so, then he is a Prima Donna. If he was explicitly promised something, well then it is better to stay quiet and remind the people that matter he is owed a role at a later moment in time, but in the meantime he will be a good team player.
I wish that Carney had done that. But after fully supporting Carney and doing double duty as gousing minister and candidate, NES has been dumped in the trash.
That is a bit too dramatic. 80% of the Liberals caucus is disappointed today. The chance of being part of the 80% is far greater than being part of cabinet. Talents like NES will find a way to shine as an MP. And not all cabinet members will reach the finish line, there will be opportunities along the way.
It must be exhausting to be this rage filled. Perhaps wait to see what the package and mandates look like before launching off on this type of bitter tirade?
The news is in, and Evan was exactly spot-on.
Mark Carney was chosen to lead the Liberals precisely because he is a centrist. Why would you expect him to continue policy-making along the lines that lead to the previous Liberal government cratering its support?
"The Left" (your term) still appears to be more concerned with its own ideology, than how it is we're supposed to pay for implementing all of it.
As the political backroom wizard-of-wins James Carville made Bill Clinton memorize: "It's the economy, stupid" (and I'm not calling anyone stupid-that's the direct quote).
More than 40% of Canadians voted for a much more right-wing party. CPC support grew, and they denied the Liberals a majority. That should tell us something about how out-of-touch government was with the concerns and cares of average people.
And lots of those folks are frustrated, and feeling trapped. Just about everyone I know in my circle of family and friends is quietly stressed because of the past 4 years of price hikes in groceries, utilities, property taxes, and pretty much everything they need to live.
That's proved fertile ground for hardcore conservatives. And the longer the left keeps trying to turn the Liberal party into New Democrats, the more ammunition it hands to the far right wing, the radical Maple Maga extremists who are so skilled at twisting the narrative. Their grievance- based rage farming loses its appeal, when people feel some optimism about their own future.
We have GOT to stop polarizing our politics into "left" and "right", and instead start treating our challenges as issues to be solved for all Canadians. Who cares where the idea comes from. At this point, good policy test questions should be :Can it help the greatest number of citizens, and what are we using to pay for it?
Put an NDP member, and a Conservative in cabinet, if that's what it takes. But don't feel personally betrayed because the country has sent a pretty clear message about its concerns. It may mean, for a while at least, putting the economy and our national security ahead of advancements on the social justice front.
Let's put it this way -- NES was a good minister and an excellent communicator who got dumped in the trash by Carney. Left or right, it shows poor judgment to not use someone as good as that.
While I will be surprised and disappointed to see Nate out of cabinet, if this indeed true - I do think this is a rather hyperbolic over-reaction to such an occurrence. Nate isn’t some sort of political saviour wizard that we can’t live without. There are a lot of capable MPs to choose from, and many regional and demographic communities to represent in cabinet - which is no easy feat while trying to keep the cabinet at a reasonable size.
And I don’t fully accept your “deal with the left” narrative - that’s not how regular voters think or were thinking when they voted Carney. Maybe some insiders or highly engaged lefties were thinking this way, but Nate isn’t necessarily their standard bearer either. Also, Dippers voting Liberal wasn’t a consequence of some kind of deal or plea offered by Carney. Those voters are not firm NDP voters - they can move. And they moved on their own to stop Poilievre. Do they need to be considered and placated to some degree with policies so they stay in the fold? Sure, but it will be about policy and results, not about keeping a specific person in cabinet. Most voters do not know who is in cabinet.
I'll be honest - I didn't want the Liberals to win this election, but the one silver lining for me once they did was the possibility of Nate Erskine Smith holding onto the housing file. He is one of the rare few who get how monumental this issue is and why monumental action is needed. Now that hope is gone, it'll be even more bitter to see the likes of Anita Anand and Sean Fraser - rats who returned once the ship was no longer sinking - be rewarded with Cabinet posts. I'll be tuning in tomorrow regardless to see the famed crisis manager's other picks.
I think that is rather unkind. When Anand and Fraser changed their minds the Liberals were still well behind in the polls. There was no guarantee for success at all at that moment.
Nate also said that he would not run again, like Fraser he has yount children, but when Fraser quit, he stepped back in and picked up the pieces. That's being a true team player.
Now the housing portfolio has been given to Evan Solomon, a new MP who will need time to get up and running as an MP much less as a minister. How is th8s good for something as important as housing?
Plenty of people quit when they don't like their boss. Boss changed, minds changed. And Carney a bit of a rock star. Only human
Human sure, but it was the naked opportunism that turned me off and drew so much mockery from many quarters. Fraser pretended to want to spend more time with his young kids. Well, those kids sure grew up fast! And he had no qualms kicking out the Liberal candidate who had already been chosen for that riding - that was disgusting on an ethical level. As for Anand, she pretended she wanted to turn her attention to challenges in a different domain. Well, the lure of another Cabinet seat is...very different, I guess.
If they had eaten some humble pie and were honest enough to say they were returning because the boss had changed and Liberal fortunes had changed, I would have had some respect for them.
Why can't it just be that a bad boss finally left, in a scenario (a parliament) where no top-down hierarchical corporate bosses should have existed in the first place?
Elected members of parliament should NEVER be treated as staff by a corporation of corporate executive! Normalizing parliament being a warzone between competing corporate special interests is fundamentally anti-democratic!
Why attribute opportunism to the more respectable MPs that put country before party or party leader?
Why can't LPC loyalists look at that failure and change party policy so that it is the caucus that decides who the leader is, not a corporation operating outside of parliament or some individual?
https://www.davidgraham.ca/p/leadership-by-caucus
Trudeau needed to go a long time ago, and the ideology behind this cult of leadership is risking the very existence of Canada. It would be ideal if some of the damage done by P.E. Trudeau to Canada’s Democratic Institutions are rescinded with the bookend of Justin Trudeau finally leaving.
https://r.flora.ca/p/lets-work-to-fix-parliamentary-flaws
I do not think Anand's return was problematic as she had planned to return to academia. She is a star so do not mind her return. I agree with you with respect to Fraser as he cited the famous spending time with family reason. He did kick someone out. I hope he turns out outstanding to overcome your rightly earned cynicism. Cheers
I appreciate your civil discourse, thank you for that!
Let s wait and see on Tuesday. I trust Mark Carney s judgment.
If you wanted leftist policies, you probably should have voted for the leftwing party. Why did you think you were going to get some platform other than the one he ran on?
This article is especially hilarious in light of what you had to say about the NDP... ABC "strategic voting" brainrot is American-style mental illness.
My husband and I started reading (and really enjoying and appreciating) you during the election. This morning he said to me about this latest piece, "what's with Scrimshaw", and I agree, it seems hasty and too soon for "Catastrophic" and "Betrayal".
Not at all. Booting NES is a clear message to the left wing of the party: sit down, shut up, and get out of the way. We'll be governing like Progressive Conservatives and you'll like it.
According to an anonymous source, Nate will be replaced by Gregor Robertson, former Vancouver mayor and NDP provincial MLA. While I understand that Nate's supporters may be upset, I don't see this as a major betrayal of progressive voters—it's a case of one progressive being replaced by another one.
Yeah, because Vancouver is such a paradise of housing affordability. Guy could be the second coming of Tommy Douglas and he's starting off ten steps behind just because of that.
The Carney government is all about the Economy and get it moving again. I am traditionally left but I understand we can't be weighed down in bureaucracy or we will never progress.
Bang on. Carney has made clear what this government is going to be like - this will be Conservatives in red shirts, which, frankly, is what we should always have expected from him.
I'm waiting until after I see the full cabinet. Are there some floor crossings?
Does Elizabeth May do the right thing and finally take the Green team jersey off and make clear she is actually a LPC fan? (Note: I was a Green Party campaigner in the 1990's, so have been following that party's drama for decades).
At least two more to go? More than two for safety?
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/party-standings
You've lost the plot this time, Evan. There are far more important issues to focus your ire upon, in my opinion. ❤️🇨🇦