The Poilievre/ Byrne wing of the CPC is not driven by a desire to win an election. Their primary motivation is that the Liberals lose. This is what they really care about.
I have a few conservative friends in Ottawa and sometimes we talk politics. And every time I am surprised how strong the inferiority complex is. They have convinced themselves that the media is in the Liberal pocket. Their starting point with any controversy is that Liberals are corrupt and they never just make an honest mistake. Or even worse, the Liberals are utterly incompetent and at the same time masterfully skilled in scheming the system to their personal corrupt advantage.
So, what do you get when you think like this? A party and a leader that is nasty, mean, negative and unpleasant. And yes, that is very similar to what we see south of the border.
One of the most devastating revelations from the leaked Signal chat was that all the participants are exactly as big of idiots behind closed doors as they are in public. They really believe their own propaganda
I fully believe that there’s an element of that here. A lot of the CPC strategy isn’t a strategy, it’s what they actually believe. And it’s not going to change because there’s no one left in the room who knows that it all just started as a means to whip up low information votes.
I think you are spot on. You just have to look at the people Poilievre and Byrne surrounded themselves with. These people are not deep thinkers or strategic masterminds. Most of them actually believe the nonsense they are peddling.
The campaign still early but the CPC is making weird decision one after the other. The day after Trump announced devastating tariff for Ontario auto industry, PP should have been with auto workers southern Ontario today not on Vancouver island. Yesterday in Quebec he spoke about the war against woke and the WEF, it may work with some of his voters but I don’t it helps at all attracting new ones.
How many Canadians outside of Alberta care about the war against "woke"? I suspect, or at least I hope, that the answer is very few. We proudly view ourselves as a "progressive" country.
I gotta say that following this campaign is providing top-tier entertainment
The way Doug (and his team) has excelled at just doing enough to telegraph he is NOT supporting Pierre has been masterful
Pierre is just too stubborn or conceited (maybe both?). I started watching his presser today but the moment he started with the green funds, and China banks, I muted him - flimsy & juvenile smears 🙄
I heard Rosemary repeat several times that the tariffs war gave Carney “an unfair advantage” over Pierre & Jagmeet 🙄
.. that - I’d like to see/hear - there a Date ? I can find it - Am a raging critic of ‘damn near zero fact check - of ‘likely suspect rabid Political Insiders
When PP loses, presumably he’s finished. $100 says the next CPC leader is Ford. He can’t speak French. Thats his only obvious impediment. Not sure that will matter enough to stop him.
As a lifelong Liberal I can only hppe Byrne and Poilievre get multiple chances. They are unserious, unstrategic and carving a path for LPC50 - that would be uninterrupted rule until 2050.
Of course, eventually Kory and policy wonks would have to be brought on board right? You hope so for not only CPC's but Canada's future.
I keep wondering when the Conservative Party executive will realize that Kory and Nick are *RIGHT THERE* (and Kory appears to be emphasizing that he is *RIGHT THERE* if asked), and that maybe, just maybe, the party might be better off if Jenni was just handling GOTV as opposed to the whole campaign.
Or maybe Jenni and/or Poilievre are enough of Trumpists that they really can’t bring themselves to run the election on the ballot question of how to deal with Trump. The most recent tweet from Poilievre set the right tone, but that needs to said every day, multiple times a day, until the Trumpists in the CPC realize that they are at minimum not ascendant in the CPC, but at best can sit in the corner quietly and donate money to the party - but will they accept that, and do Byrne and Poilievre want that sort of sidelining of their original supporters?
And sometimes, it just doesn’t matter who’s in charge when one dull little product is EXACTLY what you need in one odd, tense situation.
I’m honestly praying for a revitalised and more grown up, serious CPC, so we can have a swapping of power between parties where I could actually feel safe leaving another party with the keys, even if I didn’t vote for them.
I think they might need to be handed a major L this time around, and hopefully come back again with a less “online troll”-style identity. Poilievre is not bad as a politician - I mean, he gets elected - but has he ever given the impression that he could be anything other than a lightweight as a leader or policymaker?
No, PP does not and has not ever projected as a leader. His attack dog persona has always been at the forefront. He does not seem capable of being a leader for all Canadians. If he were elected as PM, even with a minority government, he would be pushing his "culture wars" agenda down our throats even though it is not supported by the majority of Canadians. Frankly, he has neither the gravitas nor the charm needed to be an effective leader or to represent us internationally.
Folks are miss reading what's going on. Kory/Ford won because the left is split in ON. The CPC vote is holding and some polls show them in the low 40s. This kniving in the back by Ontario Cons will not bode well for Cons movements going forward. Kory could find himself a political beast like Pierre or whoever, they will never succeed federally as long as the left is united. What will happen if Pierre loses with a good PV, is that the party will break down to its constituent parts: PPC, Refrom, old PC. The Libs will govern for a long time and Upper and Lower Canada will be content with that. There will be a huge rift with Prairie Canada. Knowing their vote does not matter at all, I think AB will ask to be a state in the US. There so much a people can take. Watch that space.
We know that Pierre is a classical conservative. Nothing close to Trump. The Libs have wedged on that and such wedges have consequences. Just see covid. We came out of it more divided. Wedging on Trump and calling Pierre's supports wingnuts, a solid amount of people, essentially telling them they're not welcome will break our country. It will not take much.
What will happen if Pierre loses? It could all continue to go badly for a long time, or it might finally incentivise adopting Ranked Ballots.
(and hopefully stop everyone talking about the divisive notion of Party Popular Vote, which among many other problems only amplifies regional divides, etc. The NDP and Greens are simply WRONG on electoral and democratic reform, and need to be written off as divisive).
The current "Conservative" party *should* break into its constituent parts as that allows more people to vote *for* people who can actually represent them. Coalition parties like the current "Liberal" and "Conservative" parties need to be broken up.
Pierre is not even close to a classical Canadian conservative, and is one of those always-angry crypto-libertarian types. Fine if you only want clarity on what you will loudly *hate* (LPC) if hatred is fun for you, but not remotely useful if you want to be *for* anything or *do* anything.
I just googled that, because I was remembering that she wasn't in charge @ the end.
From what I read, looks like she was still nominally in charge, but was sent back to Ottawa before the end of the campaign. Not sure how well you can manage a campaign when the leader is pissed off at you :-)
Great read. The only flaw I found was pointing out that the Conservative strategy has to be more than just Trump and tariff focused. That is only marginally correct as it is the primary focus of the Liberal Party with the Conservatives seemingly in a defence posture at this time. The Liberals need to focus on this as it certainly is a very relevant issue but mostly because it overshadows the appalling record of the past nine years. Carney can only rationally distance himself so much as not being the leader but his fingerprints are all over Trudeau’s policies so diversion is a vital tool here.
Not sure what you’re smoking but PP’s campaign is so bad that Carney lifted all his signature policies! Very little Kory T could do to convince boomers in Ontario and points east that Carney isn’t the saviour v. Trump. PP is also ahead with younger voters so campaign hardly a disaster. Huge rallies too.
The real “tragedy” is the news that Mark Carney is suspending his campaign because of TRUMP. He was on a roll winning over Quebecers with his impeccable French, and his keen sensitivity on the Polytechnique. I guess the “event” yesterday in Windsor with a dozen auto workers forced to stand there and endure his mispronouncing the local candidates name repeatedly must of decided that the Liberals are on their way to majority. I guess Canadians want to pay more carbon taxes. Who knew? 😵💫
You are perfect example of the typical CPC supporter I describe in the other post.
Most Canadians see Carney as a leader who doing his very best to speak in both our official languages. They see he is making the effort and they recognize this (and perhaps if they are unilingual themselves they will realize how hard it is).
You, on the other hand, see it as an opportunity to denigrate and to be mean and nasty. By doing so, you demonstrate your own insecurity. It makes you small and petty. It reminds Canadians of a certain style of politics south of our border that has managed to take power over there.
Yep, this is how I see Carney. He's a rookie politican and he's doing his best. He's got a lot a lot on his plate and he'll make a few mistakes. I admire him working on his French in the mist of all this.
The Poilievre/ Byrne wing of the CPC is not driven by a desire to win an election. Their primary motivation is that the Liberals lose. This is what they really care about.
I have a few conservative friends in Ottawa and sometimes we talk politics. And every time I am surprised how strong the inferiority complex is. They have convinced themselves that the media is in the Liberal pocket. Their starting point with any controversy is that Liberals are corrupt and they never just make an honest mistake. Or even worse, the Liberals are utterly incompetent and at the same time masterfully skilled in scheming the system to their personal corrupt advantage.
So, what do you get when you think like this? A party and a leader that is nasty, mean, negative and unpleasant. And yes, that is very similar to what we see south of the border.
.. when the ‘performative ‘Ethics ain’t even on display .. it’s ‘HiTest Malignant Narcissism - take it to the bank.. eh 🦎🏴☠️🍁
One of the most devastating revelations from the leaked Signal chat was that all the participants are exactly as big of idiots behind closed doors as they are in public. They really believe their own propaganda
I fully believe that there’s an element of that here. A lot of the CPC strategy isn’t a strategy, it’s what they actually believe. And it’s not going to change because there’s no one left in the room who knows that it all just started as a means to whip up low information votes.
I think you are spot on. You just have to look at the people Poilievre and Byrne surrounded themselves with. These people are not deep thinkers or strategic masterminds. Most of them actually believe the nonsense they are peddling.
The campaign still early but the CPC is making weird decision one after the other. The day after Trump announced devastating tariff for Ontario auto industry, PP should have been with auto workers southern Ontario today not on Vancouver island. Yesterday in Quebec he spoke about the war against woke and the WEF, it may work with some of his voters but I don’t it helps at all attracting new ones.
How many Canadians outside of Alberta care about the war against "woke"? I suspect, or at least I hope, that the answer is very few. We proudly view ourselves as a "progressive" country.
I gotta say that following this campaign is providing top-tier entertainment
The way Doug (and his team) has excelled at just doing enough to telegraph he is NOT supporting Pierre has been masterful
Pierre is just too stubborn or conceited (maybe both?). I started watching his presser today but the moment he started with the green funds, and China banks, I muted him - flimsy & juvenile smears 🙄
I heard Rosemary repeat several times that the tariffs war gave Carney “an unfair advantage” over Pierre & Jagmeet 🙄
Now I await for “the phone call” with Trump
Rosemary's bias is so blatant.
.. that - I’d like to see/hear - there a Date ? I can find it - Am a raging critic of ‘damn near zero fact check - of ‘likely suspect rabid Political Insiders
A date for what?
Date of Rosemary’s Live on Air .. Her Show or as Co-host or ?
I can search for it ..
Pretty sure you could find it on YT
When PP loses, presumably he’s finished. $100 says the next CPC leader is Ford. He can’t speak French. Thats his only obvious impediment. Not sure that will matter enough to stop him.
Please no. He is ruining Ontario.
He is a boob. A likeable one, but a boob nonetheless. Please, no.
As a lifelong Liberal I can only hppe Byrne and Poilievre get multiple chances. They are unserious, unstrategic and carving a path for LPC50 - that would be uninterrupted rule until 2050.
Of course, eventually Kory and policy wonks would have to be brought on board right? You hope so for not only CPC's but Canada's future.
I keep wondering when the Conservative Party executive will realize that Kory and Nick are *RIGHT THERE* (and Kory appears to be emphasizing that he is *RIGHT THERE* if asked), and that maybe, just maybe, the party might be better off if Jenni was just handling GOTV as opposed to the whole campaign.
Or maybe Jenni and/or Poilievre are enough of Trumpists that they really can’t bring themselves to run the election on the ballot question of how to deal with Trump. The most recent tweet from Poilievre set the right tone, but that needs to said every day, multiple times a day, until the Trumpists in the CPC realize that they are at minimum not ascendant in the CPC, but at best can sit in the corner quietly and donate money to the party - but will they accept that, and do Byrne and Poilievre want that sort of sidelining of their original supporters?
And sometimes, it just doesn’t matter who’s in charge when one dull little product is EXACTLY what you need in one odd, tense situation.
I’m honestly praying for a revitalised and more grown up, serious CPC, so we can have a swapping of power between parties where I could actually feel safe leaving another party with the keys, even if I didn’t vote for them.
I think they might need to be handed a major L this time around, and hopefully come back again with a less “online troll”-style identity. Poilievre is not bad as a politician - I mean, he gets elected - but has he ever given the impression that he could be anything other than a lightweight as a leader or policymaker?
No, PP does not and has not ever projected as a leader. His attack dog persona has always been at the forefront. He does not seem capable of being a leader for all Canadians. If he were elected as PM, even with a minority government, he would be pushing his "culture wars" agenda down our throats even though it is not supported by the majority of Canadians. Frankly, he has neither the gravitas nor the charm needed to be an effective leader or to represent us internationally.
"It’s the equivalent of a quiet night of homemade steak dinner on Valentines Day when the girlfriend wants a big night on the town."
So who are you addressing here Evan? Something to think about, if you give a eff about building your readership.
Folks are miss reading what's going on. Kory/Ford won because the left is split in ON. The CPC vote is holding and some polls show them in the low 40s. This kniving in the back by Ontario Cons will not bode well for Cons movements going forward. Kory could find himself a political beast like Pierre or whoever, they will never succeed federally as long as the left is united. What will happen if Pierre loses with a good PV, is that the party will break down to its constituent parts: PPC, Refrom, old PC. The Libs will govern for a long time and Upper and Lower Canada will be content with that. There will be a huge rift with Prairie Canada. Knowing their vote does not matter at all, I think AB will ask to be a state in the US. There so much a people can take. Watch that space.
We know that Pierre is a classical conservative. Nothing close to Trump. The Libs have wedged on that and such wedges have consequences. Just see covid. We came out of it more divided. Wedging on Trump and calling Pierre's supports wingnuts, a solid amount of people, essentially telling them they're not welcome will break our country. It will not take much.
What will happen if Pierre loses? It could all continue to go badly for a long time, or it might finally incentivise adopting Ranked Ballots.
(and hopefully stop everyone talking about the divisive notion of Party Popular Vote, which among many other problems only amplifies regional divides, etc. The NDP and Greens are simply WRONG on electoral and democratic reform, and need to be written off as divisive).
The current "Conservative" party *should* break into its constituent parts as that allows more people to vote *for* people who can actually represent them. Coalition parties like the current "Liberal" and "Conservative" parties need to be broken up.
https://r.flora.ca/p/why-i-dont-consider-what-most-call
Pierre is not even close to a classical Canadian conservative, and is one of those always-angry crypto-libertarian types. Fine if you only want clarity on what you will loudly *hate* (LPC) if hatred is fun for you, but not remotely useful if you want to be *for* anything or *do* anything.
Any AI Search & Analysis aimed at Pierre Poilievre’s & Jenni Byrne’s ‘joint & together’ BACKTRAIL .. would simply FEAST on The Company They Kept ..
Poilievre is a Libertarian....is that a classic conservative?
One question - did Jenni Byrne finish out the 2015 campaign in charge? If not, who took over at the end?
I just googled that, because I was remembering that she wasn't in charge @ the end.
From what I read, looks like she was still nominally in charge, but was sent back to Ottawa before the end of the campaign. Not sure how well you can manage a campaign when the leader is pissed off at you :-)
Great read. The only flaw I found was pointing out that the Conservative strategy has to be more than just Trump and tariff focused. That is only marginally correct as it is the primary focus of the Liberal Party with the Conservatives seemingly in a defence posture at this time. The Liberals need to focus on this as it certainly is a very relevant issue but mostly because it overshadows the appalling record of the past nine years. Carney can only rationally distance himself so much as not being the leader but his fingerprints are all over Trudeau’s policies so diversion is a vital tool here.
Not sure what you’re smoking but PP’s campaign is so bad that Carney lifted all his signature policies! Very little Kory T could do to convince boomers in Ontario and points east that Carney isn’t the saviour v. Trump. PP is also ahead with younger voters so campaign hardly a disaster. Huge rallies too.
Wow and Bank of America was started by an undocumented Mexican who became legit ?!??!!!!
If Pierre wins this election, Doug probably never has a shot at PM?
The real “tragedy” is the news that Mark Carney is suspending his campaign because of TRUMP. He was on a roll winning over Quebecers with his impeccable French, and his keen sensitivity on the Polytechnique. I guess the “event” yesterday in Windsor with a dozen auto workers forced to stand there and endure his mispronouncing the local candidates name repeatedly must of decided that the Liberals are on their way to majority. I guess Canadians want to pay more carbon taxes. Who knew? 😵💫
You are perfect example of the typical CPC supporter I describe in the other post.
Most Canadians see Carney as a leader who doing his very best to speak in both our official languages. They see he is making the effort and they recognize this (and perhaps if they are unilingual themselves they will realize how hard it is).
You, on the other hand, see it as an opportunity to denigrate and to be mean and nasty. By doing so, you demonstrate your own insecurity. It makes you small and petty. It reminds Canadians of a certain style of politics south of our border that has managed to take power over there.
Exactly.
Yep, this is how I see Carney. He's a rookie politican and he's doing his best. He's got a lot a lot on his plate and he'll make a few mistakes. I admire him working on his French in the mist of all this.
.. don’t feed the trolls .. zero upside eh