I watched Poilievre’s axe the tax rally in Castlegar earlier this week. He made the argument that the amount of funds in the economy had grown disproportionately to the economy itself. Any real economist would immediately explain to you that this is complete nonsense and would be a failing grade at high school economics.
However, his supporters are responding to this speech on Twitter with statements like “finally somebody that explains what is wrong with the economy” and “clearly it is all Trudeau’s fault because he does not understand economics like Poilievre does”. 50-70% of the population does not have the ability to recognize the stupidity of the Poilievre’s economic theories, but they really like that he talks about the economy with them and offers a simple explanation (which of course is entirely incorrect).
It is hard to compete with politicians that present very simple (and completely wrong) solutions for complex problem. But there is no alternative. If the Liberals want to win elections, they need to go out there and engage with the voters. And with everything that is going to play out south of the border in the coming months and years, there is ample space for an adult conversation on what went wrong (and right) and how we can correct and improve further.
As much as Conservatives get stereotyped as having no ideology beyond opposing anything the left supports, a lot of “progressive” policies that get lumped together don’t actually have much in common beyond being things Conservatives hate
There isn’t actually very much inherent common cause between, for example, LGBTQ rights, environmentalism, and workers rights. They have made common cause over the decades due to having the same opponents, but if that predator pressure went away it’s not a coalition that would hang together without active effort, and maybe not even then.
If the right wing ever embraced a neutral or positive position on LGBTQ rights, there’s many in that community who would otherwise feel right at home with the rest of the Conservative platform.
Environmentalism is in many ways a more natural fit in a Conservative ideological framework to start with, and the only reason it’s ended up as a “progressive” position is the right’s close ties to the oil industry. If the green energy transition ever really breaks through, I wouldn’t be surprised if large parts of the environmental movement gets co-opted by the right wing within a decade or two. There’s always been some classist and exclusionary undertones to parts of the Green movement that would respond very well to right wing messaging if they weren’t so completely owned by the oil industry
I guess what I’m saying is that “progressive” parties can’t take any votes or voters for granted. There are no interchangeable left wing blocks that can be shuffled around like game pieces. The parties can’t simply run on being “good” and checking a couple boxes on the list that we’ve decided is progressive and then deciding we deserve to win.
We need to actually solve problems for people, and stand for more than simply being all the groups the Conservatives happen to dislike at the moment
Comparing the American Presidential election and the Canadian federal election is an apples to oranges comparison. There is no American equivalent to the province of Quebec. Quebec has 78 seats. Currently, the CPC has 9 of them. They may have even less after the next election. So the Liberals not only have to compete with the NDP, they need to compete with the Bloc, because they will need every single seat they can win east of the Ontario border. The only way the Liberals can hope to keep the CPC to a minority would be if the NDP vote collapses in the GTA. There are 338 seats available; if the Liberals can win all of the NDP's seats, hold onto 120 or so of the seats they have now, and the Bloc wins north of 50, they can hold the CPC to a minority. Alternatively, they could try and form a government with the the Bloc, but that would probably not work. IMHO, I think the impetus for change will bring the CPC to power, but we will have to wait and see.
"One of the impulses it’s clear that many on the left, both in Canada and in America, are reaching for in the aftermath of Trump’s victory is the idea the voters are wrong."
Huh! Arrogant, much?
I'm not the problem! You're the problem! Sounds like a very messy divorce.
What, oh what in the Hell is wrong with you leftists that you cannot ask yourselves, "Gee, did we misread what the population wants, what it needs, what it expects? Do we need to adjust our own belief system? Are our policies and nostrums really appropriate for most of the population?"
I absolutely refuse to vote Liberal as I live in a province that was attacked endlessly (but ultimately unsuccessfully) by T1 and now by T2 - success (or hopefully) lack of same yet to be determined.
You damned leftists have been attacking my side of the country and you won't stop and consider that maybe, just maybe, perhaps, possibly you might be a smidge out of step yourself.
The voters may well have screwed the pooch on the most recent vote in the US but WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU WON'T ASK WHY, WHY, WHY THEY DIDN'T LIKE WHAT YOUR SIDE WAS OFFERING?
You need to ask what the rest of the country was thinking and don't answer so quickly with racist, stupid or whatever other nasty name that you were going to throw out. Many people held their nose and voted for DJT so what was the problem with the candidate and the platform that your side presented?
I watched Poilievre’s axe the tax rally in Castlegar earlier this week. He made the argument that the amount of funds in the economy had grown disproportionately to the economy itself. Any real economist would immediately explain to you that this is complete nonsense and would be a failing grade at high school economics.
However, his supporters are responding to this speech on Twitter with statements like “finally somebody that explains what is wrong with the economy” and “clearly it is all Trudeau’s fault because he does not understand economics like Poilievre does”. 50-70% of the population does not have the ability to recognize the stupidity of the Poilievre’s economic theories, but they really like that he talks about the economy with them and offers a simple explanation (which of course is entirely incorrect).
It is hard to compete with politicians that present very simple (and completely wrong) solutions for complex problem. But there is no alternative. If the Liberals want to win elections, they need to go out there and engage with the voters. And with everything that is going to play out south of the border in the coming months and years, there is ample space for an adult conversation on what went wrong (and right) and how we can correct and improve further.
As much as Conservatives get stereotyped as having no ideology beyond opposing anything the left supports, a lot of “progressive” policies that get lumped together don’t actually have much in common beyond being things Conservatives hate
There isn’t actually very much inherent common cause between, for example, LGBTQ rights, environmentalism, and workers rights. They have made common cause over the decades due to having the same opponents, but if that predator pressure went away it’s not a coalition that would hang together without active effort, and maybe not even then.
If the right wing ever embraced a neutral or positive position on LGBTQ rights, there’s many in that community who would otherwise feel right at home with the rest of the Conservative platform.
Environmentalism is in many ways a more natural fit in a Conservative ideological framework to start with, and the only reason it’s ended up as a “progressive” position is the right’s close ties to the oil industry. If the green energy transition ever really breaks through, I wouldn’t be surprised if large parts of the environmental movement gets co-opted by the right wing within a decade or two. There’s always been some classist and exclusionary undertones to parts of the Green movement that would respond very well to right wing messaging if they weren’t so completely owned by the oil industry
I guess what I’m saying is that “progressive” parties can’t take any votes or voters for granted. There are no interchangeable left wing blocks that can be shuffled around like game pieces. The parties can’t simply run on being “good” and checking a couple boxes on the list that we’ve decided is progressive and then deciding we deserve to win.
We need to actually solve problems for people, and stand for more than simply being all the groups the Conservatives happen to dislike at the moment
This version of the CPC will be friendly to gay men and women, and I think they will make inroads into that community.
Comparing the American Presidential election and the Canadian federal election is an apples to oranges comparison. There is no American equivalent to the province of Quebec. Quebec has 78 seats. Currently, the CPC has 9 of them. They may have even less after the next election. So the Liberals not only have to compete with the NDP, they need to compete with the Bloc, because they will need every single seat they can win east of the Ontario border. The only way the Liberals can hope to keep the CPC to a minority would be if the NDP vote collapses in the GTA. There are 338 seats available; if the Liberals can win all of the NDP's seats, hold onto 120 or so of the seats they have now, and the Bloc wins north of 50, they can hold the CPC to a minority. Alternatively, they could try and form a government with the the Bloc, but that would probably not work. IMHO, I think the impetus for change will bring the CPC to power, but we will have to wait and see.
"One of the impulses it’s clear that many on the left, both in Canada and in America, are reaching for in the aftermath of Trump’s victory is the idea the voters are wrong."
Huh! Arrogant, much?
I'm not the problem! You're the problem! Sounds like a very messy divorce.
What, oh what in the Hell is wrong with you leftists that you cannot ask yourselves, "Gee, did we misread what the population wants, what it needs, what it expects? Do we need to adjust our own belief system? Are our policies and nostrums really appropriate for most of the population?"
I absolutely refuse to vote Liberal as I live in a province that was attacked endlessly (but ultimately unsuccessfully) by T1 and now by T2 - success (or hopefully) lack of same yet to be determined.
You damned leftists have been attacking my side of the country and you won't stop and consider that maybe, just maybe, perhaps, possibly you might be a smidge out of step yourself.
The voters may well have screwed the pooch on the most recent vote in the US but WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU WON'T ASK WHY, WHY, WHY THEY DIDN'T LIKE WHAT YOUR SIDE WAS OFFERING?
You need to ask what the rest of the country was thinking and don't answer so quickly with racist, stupid or whatever other nasty name that you were going to throw out. Many people held their nose and voted for DJT so what was the problem with the candidate and the platform that your side presented?
Start with that conversation, Dammit!