Absolutely not. He got us through the past few years brilliantly. If the cons were running things half of Canadians would be dead now. When he was asked what he would have done to help Canadians during the pandemic Pierre Poilivere said, "nothing, we are conservatives, we don't believe in that." I always ask con supporters to name one good thing the cons have done for Canada and Canadians. I haven't got an answer yet. There is a long list of what they did to hurt Canada and Canadians.
The COVID response was Trudeau at his best, on every level. So what? No political party gets to coast on previous accomplishments. “What have you done for us lately” has always been the name of the game.
As an aside, the COVID performance makes his current actions doubly frustrating. Why won’t he bring that level of focus and responsiveness to any of the issues people currently care about? It baffles me
He has been focused on housing with a number of projects that have already started. There are a lot of gullible fools who think P.P. would be a great PM.
- According to Canada Housing P.P. voted AGAINST affordable housing more than any other MP. Check it out, it's on their website. He also claimed he was the Housing Minister during Harper's years of hell. There was no Housing Minister under Harper. In fact Harper "stiffed the homeless" https://thetyee.ca/News/2008/02/28/HarperHomeless/ P.P. was at his side. - My biggest concern as a grandmother is that the cons voted in March 2022 to NOT RECOGNIZE THE CLIMATE CRISIS AS REAL. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-delegates-reject-climate-change-is-real-1.5957739 During the worst wildfires in history here in BC I was evacuated as a raging wildfire came near my house, Harper's little pet, P.P. was flying around the province waving his silly little Axe the Tax flag. He was going to fly over Kelowna screaming AXE THE TAX while people watched their homes go up in smoke and flames. He would have been tarred and feathered. Fortunately Jenni told him not to do it and he fears her. He would have been tarred and feathered if he actually had done it.
- Canadians don’t want to see Medicare destroyed and replaced with American-style healthcare. This was Harper's lifelong wet dream. Harper once headed NCC an organization focused only to destroy our Medicare system. P.P. wants to make his hero and mentor Harper's dream come true. Look at the conservative provinces of Alberta and Ontario. Are citizens happy with the privatization of their healthcare? Doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, and most of their healthcare workers quit and moved to BC. Clinics and hospitals closed, and they still haven't found replacements.
- Another troubling memory of the last con government was HARPER SECRETLY SOLD US TO CHINA! In 2012 he signed FIPA with China Article 11 states that Chinese businesses in Canada may sue for financial losses during times of war, insurrection, riots and states of emergency for the NEXT 31 YEARS. Will Canada be sued by Chinese companies because of this outrageous, foolish deal that we were locked into for 31 years? Look it up. Every news outlet in Canada and around the world used it as their headline news. https://www.frankejames.com/scary-canada-china-trade-deal/
- Another troubling memory is Harper’s Con government agreed to sell the reactor division of its billion-dollar crown corporation, Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., to the private firm SNC-Lavalin Inc. Lavalin gives Ottawa $15 million; Ottawa gives Lavalin $75 million), we end up paying $60 million for the privilege of no longer owning that chunk of Atomic Energy Canada. Lavalin gets the lion’s share of the nuclear technology company’s $1.1 billion worth of assets — including land, buildings and tools. We, the taxpayers, on the other hand, are stuck with ALL of AECL’s $4.5 BILLION WORTH OF liability. Lavalin vice-president Leslie Quinton said the public is still responsible for decommissioning existing AECL atomic reactors and disposing of their waste. Canadian taxpayers are also on the hook for any cost overruns from past and current AECL projects, including an estimated $1 billion that New Brunswick says it is owed for its Point Lepreau nuclear power station. Oh yes. And Lavalin was expected to lay off at least 40 percent of AECL’s 2,000-person commercial reactor division. Most are scientists and engineers. We PAID Lavalin to take the good stuff and slash high-tech jobs. We were left with the debts! - There are many mores reason's why I will never vote for a con like the Canada Wheat Board. - Al Capone could have negotiated better deals than Harper and his little side kick P.P. In fact P.P. has never negotiated any thing in his life. He just yells.
Trudeau is a master negotiator and so is Chrystia Freeland who has proven her ability. I am afraid that because males in Canada are so intimidated by brilliant women that would go against her.
We are aligned on this issue. It’s so much easier to complain than to come up with another viable candidate. I like Anita Anand over either Carney or Freeland, but in the end I think the perception of policy effectiveness will matter more than the face of the party.
I heard a clip of a Trump supporter last night saying she was voting for Trump because “everything was cheaper when he was president.” That’s not about actual policy — or even economic data — that’s about the belief that Biden and his “leftist communist policies” have caused prices to go up, and that has made her life worse.
I think we’re going to see the same kind of beliefs drive voters here. We’ve managed to avoid a technical recession, yet I’m sure if you polled on that question, many voters would say we’ve been in a deep recession for 4 years. What’s going to matter for people is the difference between what they make and what they have to pay for stuff…and regardless of the nuance of the reasons for inflation, the other guy is selling them on the idea that had he been in power, their lives would be all rainbows and lollipops. No one seems to be asking the how/what/why questions in any depth. What a stupid timeline we’re living in.
My perspective as a BC’r and who have canvassed for the LPC for 8 years:
PMJT took the country to an election during an epidemic to get a “mandate” from Canadians. However he could have done this the Summer of ‘23 to get a renewed mandate from his party.
We don’t even use his name and have to pivot to our candidate most of the time to make inroads at the door.
My go to response to the negative visceral response of constituents is “ thank goodness we do not elect our Prime Minister, we choose a party that reflects our values and those we want to see in our communities and country.
And, as BC doesn’t make a difference like Quebec, the LPC may regret not giving our province more attention this next election.
I suspect after the Durham result the Trudeau question will be raised internally. But I also think that Trudeau will be quick to decide that he will continue.
The other question is if the Liberals need a big new policy idea, or pivot as we are getting closer to the next election. I am not sure this is the case. In general Canada’s economy is doing fine, unemployment is low, inflation is back to more historical values. I don’t know what the federal could change to make a meaningful difference.
Topics that could make a difference are mostly provincial jurisdiction. Crime and policing, provincial. Healthcare delivery, provincial. Housing, actually mostly provincial. So, perhaps this is were the path lies for the Liberals. Time to go to war with the provinces.
I don't know that the Durham result signifies much. This is a riding that has elected Conservatives for 20 years. The turnout was less than 30% and yes Jovani took more than 50% of the votes but this was still just a byelection.
The Liberals made an effort to narrow the gap. Several known MPs and ministers came to the riding. It did not help at all. Maybe it even made it worse. The Liberals should not discard it as just a by-election.
anybody coherent - watching, reading, listening over the last two years knows the guy ain’t cutting & running .. get real.. leave it to CBC et al with their smug ‘panelists.. droning on pompously of ‘walk in the snow’.. and look how holier than they are .. Mulcair sounds well rehearsed & his facial gooning leering oh deary me.. & look there’s Christy ‘point of no return’ fame & internal caucus corruption - dour moon face James ‘ride me wilfred !’ Moore who woulda shoulda spent more time with family or he might have been PM - but no.. done in by sheer damn bad luck while havin too much fun in Ottawa
But hey.. tell me true what a historic field day it would be for rancid toxic media from Canada’s most prolific Political News Media ‘network in Canada today ? Yes, Pierre Poilievre & his Media Generation & Distribution via Facebook, Twitter.. Oh sure.. Trudeau is going to just hang someone / anyone out to die in the most humiliating, scarring sadistic way.. which might I add - actually ‘TRIGGER’ far worse consequences
When MainStream Pathetically chums the Citizenry with Polls in the Snow plus the backwaters of SocialMedia boogaloo sniffers - then one should start looking high in the CBC for reasons why. We have serious Issues in Canada .. Canadians really have Zero Comprehension of just how insidious Partisan ‘conservative’ Election Warfare really is - this In Terms Of Incremental Perception Grooming via ‘MEDIA’
We’ve Zero Experience at such Levels of 24/7 Noise - Our ‘perceptions’ are all we have.. ideally along with some level coherence that can cut through the constant output of yellow media propaganda - misinformation disinformation wordplay framing shading soothing, assuring sloganeering sneering
There’s also an argument for replacing him, even in a vacuum, and for me it hinges on trying to imagine what sort of campaign he’d run.
Right now if they double down on current policies, they way they’ve been doing in the face of enormous national backlash, they’re getting wiped out even in Quebec. Unless you think our current issues will have significantly faded a year from now, which I doubt, they’d need a big election pivot. And if Trudeau and his advisors are capable of accepting a big policy pivot, why would they wait for the election? And would he be able to credibly run against his own policies at that point?
And I also think you’re underestimating Quebec’s willingness to tolerate a loser. Particularly a loser who would explicitly reject the idea of being a party focused on regional issues. If it’s clear that the Liberals are going to be hammered in the rest of the country Quebec is not going to be their bulwark.
So, if you think a Liberal loss is baked in, there’s an argument to be made that even any generic replacement makes sense. Make a clean break from Trudeau as early as possible. Run a good losing campaign that preserves as much as possible across the country. Spend four years after rebuilding
What would that big pivot be? The challenge is that most Canadians are doing fine. Economy is fine, unemployment is low, wages have kept up with inflation. Yes, housing is a clear issue, federal government is making a clear effort there. What is there to pivot? What is the big idea?
Many Canadians may actually be doing fine, but many feel that they aren't. I know that 'facts don't care about feelings', but most people vote based on how they feel. And there are still a lot of Canadians who aren't doing fine - those working 2 or 3 'part-time' jobs are not doing fine.
Quebecois want to be respected, not understood. This comes from a centuries-old tradition of being looked down upon and humiliated by English Canada.
The real test for a federal party leader is to go on Radio Canada's Tout le monde en parle, Sunday evenings. Andrew Scheer did just that when he was CPC leader, and they were polite to him. That's when I knew his goose was cooked.
Under Trudeau, the Liberals' Quebec support is concentrated mainly in the English-speaking parts of Montreal. The Quebecois don't like him. Look to the Bloc to make large gains. Could a different Liberal leader do better? Maybe, but I don't see him or her.
At the end of the day, the only way the Liberals can block the CPC is by scaring enough voters. That campaign has already started but it is in low gear (like everything the Liberals are currently doing)> Look for this to be the main thrust of the Liberal campaign. Perhaps that's why they are biding their time -- they will launch attacks closer to voting day. It's hard to keep an emotion on high for twenty months. Might just work.
Absolutely not. He got us through the past few years brilliantly. If the cons were running things half of Canadians would be dead now. When he was asked what he would have done to help Canadians during the pandemic Pierre Poilivere said, "nothing, we are conservatives, we don't believe in that." I always ask con supporters to name one good thing the cons have done for Canada and Canadians. I haven't got an answer yet. There is a long list of what they did to hurt Canada and Canadians.
The COVID response was Trudeau at his best, on every level. So what? No political party gets to coast on previous accomplishments. “What have you done for us lately” has always been the name of the game.
As an aside, the COVID performance makes his current actions doubly frustrating. Why won’t he bring that level of focus and responsiveness to any of the issues people currently care about? It baffles me
He has been focused on housing with a number of projects that have already started. There are a lot of gullible fools who think P.P. would be a great PM.
- According to Canada Housing P.P. voted AGAINST affordable housing more than any other MP. Check it out, it's on their website. He also claimed he was the Housing Minister during Harper's years of hell. There was no Housing Minister under Harper. In fact Harper "stiffed the homeless" https://thetyee.ca/News/2008/02/28/HarperHomeless/ P.P. was at his side. - My biggest concern as a grandmother is that the cons voted in March 2022 to NOT RECOGNIZE THE CLIMATE CRISIS AS REAL. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-delegates-reject-climate-change-is-real-1.5957739 During the worst wildfires in history here in BC I was evacuated as a raging wildfire came near my house, Harper's little pet, P.P. was flying around the province waving his silly little Axe the Tax flag. He was going to fly over Kelowna screaming AXE THE TAX while people watched their homes go up in smoke and flames. He would have been tarred and feathered. Fortunately Jenni told him not to do it and he fears her. He would have been tarred and feathered if he actually had done it.
- Canadians don’t want to see Medicare destroyed and replaced with American-style healthcare. This was Harper's lifelong wet dream. Harper once headed NCC an organization focused only to destroy our Medicare system. P.P. wants to make his hero and mentor Harper's dream come true. Look at the conservative provinces of Alberta and Ontario. Are citizens happy with the privatization of their healthcare? Doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, and most of their healthcare workers quit and moved to BC. Clinics and hospitals closed, and they still haven't found replacements.
- Another troubling memory of the last con government was HARPER SECRETLY SOLD US TO CHINA! In 2012 he signed FIPA with China Article 11 states that Chinese businesses in Canada may sue for financial losses during times of war, insurrection, riots and states of emergency for the NEXT 31 YEARS. Will Canada be sued by Chinese companies because of this outrageous, foolish deal that we were locked into for 31 years? Look it up. Every news outlet in Canada and around the world used it as their headline news. https://www.frankejames.com/scary-canada-china-trade-deal/
- Another troubling memory is Harper’s Con government agreed to sell the reactor division of its billion-dollar crown corporation, Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., to the private firm SNC-Lavalin Inc. Lavalin gives Ottawa $15 million; Ottawa gives Lavalin $75 million), we end up paying $60 million for the privilege of no longer owning that chunk of Atomic Energy Canada. Lavalin gets the lion’s share of the nuclear technology company’s $1.1 billion worth of assets — including land, buildings and tools. We, the taxpayers, on the other hand, are stuck with ALL of AECL’s $4.5 BILLION WORTH OF liability. Lavalin vice-president Leslie Quinton said the public is still responsible for decommissioning existing AECL atomic reactors and disposing of their waste. Canadian taxpayers are also on the hook for any cost overruns from past and current AECL projects, including an estimated $1 billion that New Brunswick says it is owed for its Point Lepreau nuclear power station. Oh yes. And Lavalin was expected to lay off at least 40 percent of AECL’s 2,000-person commercial reactor division. Most are scientists and engineers. We PAID Lavalin to take the good stuff and slash high-tech jobs. We were left with the debts! - There are many mores reason's why I will never vote for a con like the Canada Wheat Board. - Al Capone could have negotiated better deals than Harper and his little side kick P.P. In fact P.P. has never negotiated any thing in his life. He just yells.
Trudeau is a master negotiator and so is Chrystia Freeland who has proven her ability. I am afraid that because males in Canada are so intimidated by brilliant women that would go against her.
We are aligned on this issue. It’s so much easier to complain than to come up with another viable candidate. I like Anita Anand over either Carney or Freeland, but in the end I think the perception of policy effectiveness will matter more than the face of the party.
I heard a clip of a Trump supporter last night saying she was voting for Trump because “everything was cheaper when he was president.” That’s not about actual policy — or even economic data — that’s about the belief that Biden and his “leftist communist policies” have caused prices to go up, and that has made her life worse.
I think we’re going to see the same kind of beliefs drive voters here. We’ve managed to avoid a technical recession, yet I’m sure if you polled on that question, many voters would say we’ve been in a deep recession for 4 years. What’s going to matter for people is the difference between what they make and what they have to pay for stuff…and regardless of the nuance of the reasons for inflation, the other guy is selling them on the idea that had he been in power, their lives would be all rainbows and lollipops. No one seems to be asking the how/what/why questions in any depth. What a stupid timeline we’re living in.
My perspective as a BC’r and who have canvassed for the LPC for 8 years:
PMJT took the country to an election during an epidemic to get a “mandate” from Canadians. However he could have done this the Summer of ‘23 to get a renewed mandate from his party.
We don’t even use his name and have to pivot to our candidate most of the time to make inroads at the door.
My go to response to the negative visceral response of constituents is “ thank goodness we do not elect our Prime Minister, we choose a party that reflects our values and those we want to see in our communities and country.
And, as BC doesn’t make a difference like Quebec, the LPC may regret not giving our province more attention this next election.
I suspect after the Durham result the Trudeau question will be raised internally. But I also think that Trudeau will be quick to decide that he will continue.
The other question is if the Liberals need a big new policy idea, or pivot as we are getting closer to the next election. I am not sure this is the case. In general Canada’s economy is doing fine, unemployment is low, inflation is back to more historical values. I don’t know what the federal could change to make a meaningful difference.
Topics that could make a difference are mostly provincial jurisdiction. Crime and policing, provincial. Healthcare delivery, provincial. Housing, actually mostly provincial. So, perhaps this is were the path lies for the Liberals. Time to go to war with the provinces.
I don't know that the Durham result signifies much. This is a riding that has elected Conservatives for 20 years. The turnout was less than 30% and yes Jovani took more than 50% of the votes but this was still just a byelection.
The Liberals made an effort to narrow the gap. Several known MPs and ministers came to the riding. It did not help at all. Maybe it even made it worse. The Liberals should not discard it as just a by-election.
“We lost by X last time, and lost by 2X this time” is not a neutral result
I take your point, but losing by 2X when the sample size is considerably smaller isn't the same as losing X in a much larger sample. :-)
The sample size is exactly the same in both cases: one election.
“It’s possible that the people who don’t care enough to show up *might* support us” is not an actual rational argument
anybody coherent - watching, reading, listening over the last two years knows the guy ain’t cutting & running .. get real.. leave it to CBC et al with their smug ‘panelists.. droning on pompously of ‘walk in the snow’.. and look how holier than they are .. Mulcair sounds well rehearsed & his facial gooning leering oh deary me.. & look there’s Christy ‘point of no return’ fame & internal caucus corruption - dour moon face James ‘ride me wilfred !’ Moore who woulda shoulda spent more time with family or he might have been PM - but no.. done in by sheer damn bad luck while havin too much fun in Ottawa
But hey.. tell me true what a historic field day it would be for rancid toxic media from Canada’s most prolific Political News Media ‘network in Canada today ? Yes, Pierre Poilievre & his Media Generation & Distribution via Facebook, Twitter.. Oh sure.. Trudeau is going to just hang someone / anyone out to die in the most humiliating, scarring sadistic way.. which might I add - actually ‘TRIGGER’ far worse consequences
When MainStream Pathetically chums the Citizenry with Polls in the Snow plus the backwaters of SocialMedia boogaloo sniffers - then one should start looking high in the CBC for reasons why. We have serious Issues in Canada .. Canadians really have Zero Comprehension of just how insidious Partisan ‘conservative’ Election Warfare really is - this In Terms Of Incremental Perception Grooming via ‘MEDIA’
We’ve Zero Experience at such Levels of 24/7 Noise - Our ‘perceptions’ are all we have.. ideally along with some level coherence that can cut through the constant output of yellow media propaganda - misinformation disinformation wordplay framing shading soothing, assuring sloganeering sneering
Wow this sounds like an excerpt from Ulysses! Love it
There’s also an argument for replacing him, even in a vacuum, and for me it hinges on trying to imagine what sort of campaign he’d run.
Right now if they double down on current policies, they way they’ve been doing in the face of enormous national backlash, they’re getting wiped out even in Quebec. Unless you think our current issues will have significantly faded a year from now, which I doubt, they’d need a big election pivot. And if Trudeau and his advisors are capable of accepting a big policy pivot, why would they wait for the election? And would he be able to credibly run against his own policies at that point?
And I also think you’re underestimating Quebec’s willingness to tolerate a loser. Particularly a loser who would explicitly reject the idea of being a party focused on regional issues. If it’s clear that the Liberals are going to be hammered in the rest of the country Quebec is not going to be their bulwark.
So, if you think a Liberal loss is baked in, there’s an argument to be made that even any generic replacement makes sense. Make a clean break from Trudeau as early as possible. Run a good losing campaign that preserves as much as possible across the country. Spend four years after rebuilding
What would that big pivot be? The challenge is that most Canadians are doing fine. Economy is fine, unemployment is low, wages have kept up with inflation. Yes, housing is a clear issue, federal government is making a clear effort there. What is there to pivot? What is the big idea?
Many Canadians may actually be doing fine, but many feel that they aren't. I know that 'facts don't care about feelings', but most people vote based on how they feel. And there are still a lot of Canadians who aren't doing fine - those working 2 or 3 'part-time' jobs are not doing fine.
I agree. Cut him loose and rebuild. Trudeau should take a lesson from history.
A few tweaks.
Quebecois want to be respected, not understood. This comes from a centuries-old tradition of being looked down upon and humiliated by English Canada.
The real test for a federal party leader is to go on Radio Canada's Tout le monde en parle, Sunday evenings. Andrew Scheer did just that when he was CPC leader, and they were polite to him. That's when I knew his goose was cooked.
Under Trudeau, the Liberals' Quebec support is concentrated mainly in the English-speaking parts of Montreal. The Quebecois don't like him. Look to the Bloc to make large gains. Could a different Liberal leader do better? Maybe, but I don't see him or her.
At the end of the day, the only way the Liberals can block the CPC is by scaring enough voters. That campaign has already started but it is in low gear (like everything the Liberals are currently doing)> Look for this to be the main thrust of the Liberal campaign. Perhaps that's why they are biding their time -- they will launch attacks closer to voting day. It's hard to keep an emotion on high for twenty months. Might just work.
Can you elaborate a bit on Carney's strengths? Is he bilingual?
And if the ROC lurches to Carney, QC is sure to follow a winner...