Yes! Nobody ever tells you to just give bullies what they want. They tell you to stand up to them. And this is what trump is at heart. He hates being told no. So that’s what we do.
Absolutely Evan. If oil is only given a 10% tariff then a 15% export tax is necessary. She with no brain and no loyalty should take the same hit as every other exporter and pay the price for being a selfish twat.
My initial take was to specifically and loudly announce retaliation coming in two months. Then loudly monitor the increase in prices in the USA on a daily basis, making it clear that because we hadn’t don’t anything, this is the result of trumps tariffs, then implement our own when the point is driven home to the American public. I do like the targeted tariffs to start though coupled with this.
Tesla . . . and Starlink - 100% tariffs would be just fine . . . not to mention getting Mr. Ford to just drop the entire Starlink idea that he has for his Province . . .
Trump has suggested giving tariff relief for those products that the US needs. Canada should immediately impose an excise tax on those products to ensure that the cost to US consumers is the same across the board.
There is also value in thinking about this for the medium or longer term. Ideally, we impose retaliatory tariffs which cause targeted pain in the US and this generates enough backlash to have Trump pull back. However, even if this works there needs to be a way for him to declare victory. We need to think about what we would be willing to accept and our politicians will be looking for that pull back to not hurt them politically.
However, it would seem now that one of his longer term objectives is to force investment and production from Canada and Mexico back to the US. And if that is the case he may be willing to endure any backlash and will simply lie or dissemble in order to try to convince Americans that he is in fact winning in the near term and will win bigger over time. Our response to this will depend on how our business and political leaders think this approach will last. Some will decide that his influence will wane in two years when mid-term elections happen. Others will believe that the time frame is four years when he will not be able to run again. We have seen many people hold off on taking a strong stance opposing him for fear that doing so will make it harder to get back to normal. Unfortunately, what we have seen is that holding off action for that return to normal has just allowed him to go farther and harder. And if the worst case happens and he finds a way to serve another four years or is succeeded by Vance or another person supported by the broligarchy then we will be even farther behind.
I agree, Rene, and I think that our worsers (definitely not our betters) in Ottawer and most provinces just don't fully understand that DJT is very much trying force businesses to export that into the US to close up shop in Canada and move to the US. In fact, you can easily see commentary from such Canadian businesses even now that they are exploring that solution to continue to be able to access the US market.
Therefore, it seems to me that to think that this is a transitory two or four year phenomenon is missing the point that many of those businesses will be broke or moved south by the time that the phenomenon ends. Further, it misses the point that there are many folks in the US who have great sympathy for this approach.
Consider the possibility that at the end of four years J.D. Vance succeeds Trump. That would be the same J.D. Vance who wrote "Hillbilly Legacy" that decries the hollowing out of America's heartland manufacturing base as jobs went around the world. Think he would really want to reverse Trump's approach? I don't.
Yes, all of this. But there is something else where we have a lot of leverage. And it will not cost us anything in tariffs.
Americans do not understand what tariffs are. How they work. Who pays them. I had three separate conversations this week with university educated Americans working in the high tech industry. They had no clue how it would work. Two of them apologized to me that Canada now had to pay taxes because of Trump.
So start a massive advertising campaign in the US. Use every celebrity you can find. Recruit former politicians from all parties. Go on Fox and all the right wing outlets. Present the facts. Be kind, but show you are upset. 90% of Americans like Canadians, they will listen.
I agree with targeted retaliation. However Ackman exited Herbalife in 2018.
I also believe Musk would laugh off Tesla specific tariffs. He would probably send an over the air software update to Canadian tesla owners so that their Home Screen displays him doing his “love you to bits” salute.
Rather than just tariffs on Teslas (already at 100% for Chinese made ones), how about using Musk’s attempts at election interference as an excuse to sanction him and all his businesses?
First off, please understand that I am not a lawyer but that I am simply talking about my (limited) understanding.
As fun as you find it - and I won't disagree - to try to creatively tariff supporters of DJT, I think that you will find that it is not legal to levy tariffs on "Joe" but, rather, you legally must levy those tariffs on a particular class of products which might well include products that "Joe" produces.
Put it another way. We could not levy a tariff on Elon's Tesla vehicles alone. We could, however, levy that tariff on a particular class of EVs that MIGHT catch Elon's products. To be certain that you catch Elon's Teslas, you could "better yet" levy tariffs on ALL EVs. See? Possible to do but with collateral damage of all sorts.
It is absolutely correct that we can ban the export of various items to the US and that would harm the US - in the short term. But, also bear in mind that the US is one giant, humongous economy and there is a whole big world out there that is salivating at the possibility of replacing those banned exports with exports of their own. Further, bear in mind that if we are subject to 25% tariffs, some countries will be subject to 10% tariffs or even no tariffs. Therefore, short term pain to the US while they rejig their supply sources to other world suppliers then no pain.
Oh, and that short term pain to the US? Because we are banning the export of product A or B, then that is long term real excruciating pain to Canada because we have on a permanent basis lost the US market for A or B.
You say that DJT doesn't have the stomach for a real trade war. I disagree. He lives in the Casa Blanca so he is protected personally and remember this is a guy who lives for revenge.
If you think that DJT is worried about polls - he is. Kinda, somewhat. However, he can try real hard to go on the stump to rally his supporters against that "evil" Canada that is "punishing" the "reasonable" US, thereby making it much harder for Canada to reclaim markets in the future. Let me provide a thought experiment: given the way Russia has been portrayed over the years, how many US companies are really eager to set up subsidiaries and give employment to Russian citizens? What if DJT goes on a rampage to sufficiently denigrate Canada.
Finally, much as you - and I - enjoy this creativity, remember, this is a guy who remembers all slights, even imagined slights, and you are talking about very real, very personal damages against him and his. Think hard about you wish for; make any actions - and Canada must take them - sensible and not personal. So, not Elon personally, not Ivanka personally, not Ackman personally, etc. But, if Elon or Ivanka or Ackman are caught up in tariffs on a particular class, well, that is just peachy.
I think that if you look at the ban on "Igor" it was because he supported Putin and so on and so forth. That ban was an explicitly political move by Canada, the US, UK, etc.
By contrast, tariffs are a taxation measure imposed to make foreign products more expensive and encourage domestic alternatives, yada, yada, yada all the various rationales. To explicitly ban, say Elon or Ivanka would make it a political - and very personal - thing. So, if you want an absolutely enraged DJT, then go ahead, fill your boots.
We have to get over the idea that Trump wants a deal...He just wants to win and expects everyone else to let him. In addition to the targetted tariffs and export duties, Canada should go forward with the digital services tax ,which affects the tech bros supporting Trump. The EU is imposing it and so should Canada. Finally it is time to turn toward the EU and develop closer ties there. Flipping Trump the finger may feel good but won't accomplish anything. Much better to smile and work with others to keep him out (okay, and to kick him from behind.)
Tesla should get the same 100% tariff as any other Chinese vehicle.
Yes! Nobody ever tells you to just give bullies what they want. They tell you to stand up to them. And this is what trump is at heart. He hates being told no. So that’s what we do.
Absolutely Evan. If oil is only given a 10% tariff then a 15% export tax is necessary. She with no brain and no loyalty should take the same hit as every other exporter and pay the price for being a selfish twat.
Nope. Nope. And stop being an offensive sexist.
My initial take was to specifically and loudly announce retaliation coming in two months. Then loudly monitor the increase in prices in the USA on a daily basis, making it clear that because we hadn’t don’t anything, this is the result of trumps tariffs, then implement our own when the point is driven home to the American public. I do like the targeted tariffs to start though coupled with this.
Tesla . . . and Starlink - 100% tariffs would be just fine . . . not to mention getting Mr. Ford to just drop the entire Starlink idea that he has for his Province . . .
Every word of this. We have incredible leverage here and we have to use it.
No, we don't have a whole lot of leverage.
Please re-read Evan's commentary: we don't have a lot of cards or a lot of chips. What we must do is to use our limited cards intelligently.
Trump has suggested giving tariff relief for those products that the US needs. Canada should immediately impose an excise tax on those products to ensure that the cost to US consumers is the same across the board.
Very interesting thoughts, I hope they do that, bullies have controlled way too much, and often they aren’t the brightest of the bunch
I wrote a couple of blog posts along the same line.
One includes a discussion of why Musckmobiles should stop being subsidized: https://perryspen.ca/2025/01/18/trumps-tariff-threat-how-canada-is-responding-and-adapting/
The other is Toronto’s Sankofa Square should be renamed Donald Trump Square
https://perryspen.ca/2025/02/01/torontos-sankofa-square-should-be-renamed-donald-trump-square/
All great suggestions, how about a functioning fucking government!
There's a whole generation of Canadians who have no idea what that is!
There is also value in thinking about this for the medium or longer term. Ideally, we impose retaliatory tariffs which cause targeted pain in the US and this generates enough backlash to have Trump pull back. However, even if this works there needs to be a way for him to declare victory. We need to think about what we would be willing to accept and our politicians will be looking for that pull back to not hurt them politically.
However, it would seem now that one of his longer term objectives is to force investment and production from Canada and Mexico back to the US. And if that is the case he may be willing to endure any backlash and will simply lie or dissemble in order to try to convince Americans that he is in fact winning in the near term and will win bigger over time. Our response to this will depend on how our business and political leaders think this approach will last. Some will decide that his influence will wane in two years when mid-term elections happen. Others will believe that the time frame is four years when he will not be able to run again. We have seen many people hold off on taking a strong stance opposing him for fear that doing so will make it harder to get back to normal. Unfortunately, what we have seen is that holding off action for that return to normal has just allowed him to go farther and harder. And if the worst case happens and he finds a way to serve another four years or is succeeded by Vance or another person supported by the broligarchy then we will be even farther behind.
I agree, Rene, and I think that our worsers (definitely not our betters) in Ottawer and most provinces just don't fully understand that DJT is very much trying force businesses to export that into the US to close up shop in Canada and move to the US. In fact, you can easily see commentary from such Canadian businesses even now that they are exploring that solution to continue to be able to access the US market.
Therefore, it seems to me that to think that this is a transitory two or four year phenomenon is missing the point that many of those businesses will be broke or moved south by the time that the phenomenon ends. Further, it misses the point that there are many folks in the US who have great sympathy for this approach.
Consider the possibility that at the end of four years J.D. Vance succeeds Trump. That would be the same J.D. Vance who wrote "Hillbilly Legacy" that decries the hollowing out of America's heartland manufacturing base as jobs went around the world. Think he would really want to reverse Trump's approach? I don't.
Yes, all of this. But there is something else where we have a lot of leverage. And it will not cost us anything in tariffs.
Americans do not understand what tariffs are. How they work. Who pays them. I had three separate conversations this week with university educated Americans working in the high tech industry. They had no clue how it would work. Two of them apologized to me that Canada now had to pay taxes because of Trump.
So start a massive advertising campaign in the US. Use every celebrity you can find. Recruit former politicians from all parties. Go on Fox and all the right wing outlets. Present the facts. Be kind, but show you are upset. 90% of Americans like Canadians, they will listen.
I agree with targeted retaliation. However Ackman exited Herbalife in 2018.
I also believe Musk would laugh off Tesla specific tariffs. He would probably send an over the air software update to Canadian tesla owners so that their Home Screen displays him doing his “love you to bits” salute.
Edited that section cause I was wrong, thanks
Rather than just tariffs on Teslas (already at 100% for Chinese made ones), how about using Musk’s attempts at election interference as an excuse to sanction him and all his businesses?
First off, please understand that I am not a lawyer but that I am simply talking about my (limited) understanding.
As fun as you find it - and I won't disagree - to try to creatively tariff supporters of DJT, I think that you will find that it is not legal to levy tariffs on "Joe" but, rather, you legally must levy those tariffs on a particular class of products which might well include products that "Joe" produces.
Put it another way. We could not levy a tariff on Elon's Tesla vehicles alone. We could, however, levy that tariff on a particular class of EVs that MIGHT catch Elon's products. To be certain that you catch Elon's Teslas, you could "better yet" levy tariffs on ALL EVs. See? Possible to do but with collateral damage of all sorts.
It is absolutely correct that we can ban the export of various items to the US and that would harm the US - in the short term. But, also bear in mind that the US is one giant, humongous economy and there is a whole big world out there that is salivating at the possibility of replacing those banned exports with exports of their own. Further, bear in mind that if we are subject to 25% tariffs, some countries will be subject to 10% tariffs or even no tariffs. Therefore, short term pain to the US while they rejig their supply sources to other world suppliers then no pain.
Oh, and that short term pain to the US? Because we are banning the export of product A or B, then that is long term real excruciating pain to Canada because we have on a permanent basis lost the US market for A or B.
You say that DJT doesn't have the stomach for a real trade war. I disagree. He lives in the Casa Blanca so he is protected personally and remember this is a guy who lives for revenge.
If you think that DJT is worried about polls - he is. Kinda, somewhat. However, he can try real hard to go on the stump to rally his supporters against that "evil" Canada that is "punishing" the "reasonable" US, thereby making it much harder for Canada to reclaim markets in the future. Let me provide a thought experiment: given the way Russia has been portrayed over the years, how many US companies are really eager to set up subsidiaries and give employment to Russian citizens? What if DJT goes on a rampage to sufficiently denigrate Canada.
Finally, much as you - and I - enjoy this creativity, remember, this is a guy who remembers all slights, even imagined slights, and you are talking about very real, very personal damages against him and his. Think hard about you wish for; make any actions - and Canada must take them - sensible and not personal. So, not Elon personally, not Ivanka personally, not Ackman personally, etc. But, if Elon or Ivanka or Ackman are caught up in tariffs on a particular class, well, that is just peachy.
Individual Russian oligarchs are targeted all the time. Every country chooses what it bans.
I agree, but ...
I think that if you look at the ban on "Igor" it was because he supported Putin and so on and so forth. That ban was an explicitly political move by Canada, the US, UK, etc.
By contrast, tariffs are a taxation measure imposed to make foreign products more expensive and encourage domestic alternatives, yada, yada, yada all the various rationales. To explicitly ban, say Elon or Ivanka would make it a political - and very personal - thing. So, if you want an absolutely enraged DJT, then go ahead, fill your boots.
We have to get over the idea that Trump wants a deal...He just wants to win and expects everyone else to let him. In addition to the targetted tariffs and export duties, Canada should go forward with the digital services tax ,which affects the tech bros supporting Trump. The EU is imposing it and so should Canada. Finally it is time to turn toward the EU and develop closer ties there. Flipping Trump the finger may feel good but won't accomplish anything. Much better to smile and work with others to keep him out (okay, and to kick him from behind.)